V7 Brakes

[Jonpard]

I have a 2021 V7 Special, and I'm not happy at all with the rear brake. I've asked other people questions and gotten all kinds of responses - It's just not a very good brake, It's set up that way so you don't lock up the rear wheel, on and on. My rear brake does almost nothing and I can't believe that is acceptable. I ordered EBC sintered pads for it, hoping that it will give me more grip, and I'd like to put speed bleeders on it, but I'm having trouble figuring out what size to buy. I've also heard that removing the brake from the bike to position the bleeder valve more upright to bleed them helps. I'm going to bleed them because it's time, but the brake is not soft or squishy, it feels very wooden. Any suggestions anyone can offer would be very appreciated.
Ride safe and thank you, Jon

 

[john zibell]

When you remove the caliper, be sure to place something between the pads so you don't push the pistons out too far. I don't have a V7 handy so I can't tell you what size bleeder is used. With two people, you don't need the speed bleeders.

 

[Vagrant]

Put a long box end wrench on the brake lever and let it hang down. Lay on the caliber side floor. You can use one hand to pull the brake down while you use the other to open the bleeder. The reservoir holds very little. If you run it dry, you will be pulling the caliper to get it above the top of the ABS unit. Scrub the rotor down well, then clean, when you put in the new pads.

 

[scott_m]

In my workshop, I bled brakes on motorcycles of every marque literally every other day or so.

Your brakes need to be flushed and properly bled. I under that they feel wooden and not squishy. Regardless, the proper function and feel will be restored.

The process of bleeding brakes is very simple. It’s not magic. It’s engineering. All you are doing is ensuring that brake fluid fills the entire brake line with no trapped air. Air can be compressed and gives that spongy feeling in the lever. Brake fluid cannot be compressed, and when all air is purged from the line, the lever feels solid and firm.

So to do this:

1. Open master cylinder cap.

2. Using plastic syringe, I remove all contaminated fluid from the reservoir.

3. I utilize 3-4 cotton swabs held together to pat against the reservoir bottom and absorb any remaining debris or contaminants from inside the master cylinder reservoir, and I also gently swab out the master cylinder sight glass from inside the master cylinder with 1 single cotton swab because brown contamination usually is stuck on the inside of the sight glass window. (When you pull out the swab, you will see the brown or black debris on it which has been wiped from the inside of the sight glass window)

4. I remove all previous fluid from the master cylinder by patting these cotton swabs to absorb the fluid, HOWEVER be sure that you do not snag the cotton swabs in anything inside the reservoir, just pat them like a mop to absorb the contaminated fluid, and NEVER touch the brake lever with the reservoir empty! You can safely empty the reservoir to near dry condition by just patting the cotton swabs on the fluid at the bottom of the reservoir, so long as you do not touch the lever. This leaves the line full of fluid but no air enters!

5. Refill master cylinder with clean, fresh brake fluid. The reservoir will now be full of fluid that is absolutely clear in color.

5. I attach a long clear (~ 2.5’ length) tubing to the bleed screw by simply sliding it tightly over the nipple. The other end is inside of my waste fluid catch bottle. It does not need to be under brake fluid or anything like that. (We will observe a continuous flow of brake fluid through this tubing in a moment).

6. Crack open the bleed valve by turning counterclockwise with your wrench just to the point where you feel the screw break loose, then turn it back every so gently clockwise to just reseat it back closed but not tight.

6. Gently squeeze the brake lever a few times to establish a solid working pressure and while holding the brake lever in, turn your bleed screw back counterclockwise very slowly and ever so slightly until the lever begins to slowly and smoothly move inward, thereby expelling the brake fluid under pressure. The opening of the bleed valve is such that the resistance you are looking for in the hydraulic line when under pressure from the lever, is one of being slightly resistant but not free flowing. The lever should be collapsing slowly and uniformly as the fluid is pushed out the bleed nipple.

7. Once you find this point in the bleed valve, it then becomes a simple matter. With the bleed valve still in this slightly cracked open position, I continue to squeeze the brake lever smoothly and uniformly while observing the continuous stream of old brake fluid now passing through my plastic tubing. There will be no air bubbles anywhere. Just a smooth continuous line of brake fluid, passing through the tubing. (Do not let the master cylinder go empty!)

8. As the master cylinder begins to empty, I refill it again with fresh brake fluid and continue this bleeding process for 3 refills of the master cylinder. This ensures that all previous old fluid and any contaminants are pushed out the brake line and out the bleed nipple.

9. As I get through the 3rd refill of fresh brake fluid in the master cylinder, while gently and smoothly squeezing the brake lever, I close the bleed valve completely and snugly with my wrench. (Don’t crush it, just closed and a little more to tighten.). Upon squeezing the lever again a few times, you will find the pressure and resistance in the line to be very solid and firm. The line from the master cylinder to the bleed screw, is now full of nothing but fresh clean brake fluid.

10. Repeat the same process for each individual brake caliper attached to the master cylinder. (1 or 2 in the front). 1 in the rear (attached to the other master cylinder fluid reservoir).

I can do this process by myself without issue. Some people use an assistant and that is fine but unnecessary.

The secret here is tuning your amount of opening the bleed screw so that the fluid that is pushed out of the bleed nipple, is pushed out under light resistance and pressure. You should have to squeeze the lever and pressurize the system to push the fluid out of the line. If the brake lever just immediately and quickly moves all the way through its stroke, then the bleed valve is open too much. If it hardly moves or moves excessively slow, it’s not opened enough. Find the correct opening! You want that continuous but light back-pressure resistance against your squeezing of the brake lever. We want to expel the fluid out under pressure.

The plastic line also visually shows you the fluid being pushed through. You won’t see any bubbles if you have the bleed screw opened correctly. If it is too open, air will enter from the threads area.

 

[Maila]

I have a 2021 V7 Special, and I'm not happy at all with the rear brake. I've asked other people questions and gotten all kinds of responses - It's just not a very good brake, It's set up that way so you don't lock up the rear wheel, on and on. My rear brake does almost nothing and I can't believe that is acceptable. I ordered EBC sintered pads for it, hoping that it will give me more grip, and I'd like to put speed bleeders on it, but I'm having trouble figuring out what size to buy. I've also heard that removing the brake from the bike to position the bleeder valve more upright to bleed them helps. I'm going to bleed them because it's time, but the brake is not soft or squishy, it feels very wooden. Any suggestions anyone can offer would be very appreciated.
Ride safe and thank you, Jon

How went your upgrade of brake pads? Is it better and what part number you ordered?

 

[Guillaume™]

Anyone knows if its possible to permanently turn off the ABS light on the dash?.

I am considering either simply bypassing the abs system or possibly complete removal of it.

2021 Centenario

 

[scott_m]

Anyone knows if its possible to permanently turn off the ABS light on the dash?.

I am considering either simply bypassing the abs system or possibly complete removal of it.

2021 Centenario

Only if you remove the bulb.

Why would you want to "permanently" do this? It's an exceptional safety feature.

If you want, can't you just disable it? I can easily do this on my 1200 Stelvio NTX.

 

[Guillaume™]

Only if you remove the bulb.

Why would you want to "permanently" do this? It's an exceptional safety feature.

If you want, can't you just disable it? I can easily do this on my 1200 Stelvio NTX.

Its a digital gauge on the Centenario, cant take out the bulb, as there is none.
Unlike adventure bikes, I dont beleive that there is a way of turning off the ABS on the V7, or most street bike for that matter.

The reason I want to get raid of the abs. Is that I find the brakes on this bike are bloody horrible. The rear is straight up useless. I can put my whole weight on the rear pedal and the bike barely slows down. ABS should just prevent locking up the brake, I dont get anywhere near stopping power where the rear could lock up. The brakes are properly bleed, there is zero spongyness to them.
Front brake is ok, but could use improvement. Ill likely be upgrading to a larger front disk.

Thinking of running the brake lines straight from the master cylinders to the calipers. I just dont want the orange abs symbol constantly on.

 

[scott_m]

The rear is straight up useless. I can put my whole weight on the rear pedal and the bike barely slows down. ABS should just prevent locking up the brake, I dont get anywhere near stopping power where the rear could lock up.

You have a serious problem. This is not normal and it is not caused by your ABS system.

Either your master cylinder piston has a defect or your line has a contaminate blocking the flow.

There is no other explanation.

 

[tobinh]

Its a digital gauge on the Centenario, cant take out the bulb, as there is none.
Unlike adventure bikes, I dont beleive that there is a way of turning off the ABS on the V7, or most street bike for that matter.

The reason I want to get raid of the abs. Is that I find the brakes on this bike are bloody horrible. The rear is straight up useless. I can put my whole weight on the rear pedal and the bike barely slows down. ABS should just prevent locking up the brake, I dont get anywhere near stopping power where the rear could lock up. The brakes are properly bleed, there is zero spongyness to them.
Front brake is ok, but could use improvement. Ill likely be upgrading to a larger front disk.

Thinking of running the brake lines straight from the master cylinders to the calipers. I just dont want the orange abs symbol constantly on.

why do you think the ABS system is at issue? it's not exactly a new idea, even for Guzzi.

 

[Guillaume™]

why do you think the ABS system is at issue? it's not exactly a new idea, even for Guzzi.

What else would cause such poor braking? At the very least, when putting my entire weight on the brake pedal, I should feel the brake pulsate.

Right now, id get better braking performance from dragging my feet on the ground then using the rear brake
I rely nearly 100% on my front brake.

Local dealer is absolutely useless. They spent 10hrs bleeding my brakes and got the bike back and i had to pump the rear brake because my foot would go all the way down. Ended up buying a pump and bleeding them myself. So at least they are no longer spongy

 

[Big-Dave]

Spoke to a guy last week on a 2023 V7 who said the same about his back brake.

 

[tobinh]

What else would cause such poor braking? At the very least, when putting my entire weight on the brake pedal, I should feel the brake pulsate.

Right now, id get better braking performance from dragging my feet on the ground then using the rear brake
I rely nearly 100% on my front brake.

Local dealer is absolutely useless. They spent 10hrs bleeding my brakes and got the bike back and i had to pump the rear brake because my foot would go all the way down. Ended up buying a pump and bleeding them myself. So at least they are no longer spongy

hmm I don't think any of that suggests anything about your ABS system...

your brake wouldn't 'pulsate' unless it was locking up, which it obviously isn't doing for you.

I suggest you verify the caliper is moving freely, make sure your rotor is in good shape, and then investigate pads - which is your likely problem.

 

[kildareman]

Bearing in mind the location of the back brake, the underside, I would suggest checking it's able to slide freely. I clean and lubricate the sliding pins on mine regularly

 

[Vagrant]

Did you put in more aggressive pads?

 

[FMerlino]

Air gets trapped in the highest point in the system, which is the top of the ABS electronic unit. The brake lines on the top of this unit use banjo bolts. GTM sells banjo bolts with bleeder screws. That was my solution.

F Merlino

 

[Antares80]

Do not use sintered pads. Sintered brakes should be used for frequent use, for consistently high temperatures.

Instead, the rear brake is rarely used and therefore it is always cold. As a result, it brakes less than unsynthesized pads

 

[Vagrant]

100% disagree!

 

[DINOV9]

I have a 2021 V7 Special, and I'm not happy at all with the rear brake. I've asked other people questions and gotten all kinds of responses - It's just not a very good brake, It's set up that way so you don't lock up the rear wheel, on and on. My rear brake does almost nothing and I can't believe that is acceptable. I ordered EBC sintered pads for it, hoping that it will give me more grip, and I'd like to put speed bleeders on it, but I'm having trouble figuring out what size to buy. I've also heard that removing the brake from the bike to position the bleeder valve more upright to bleed them helps. I'm going to bleed them because it's time, but the brake is not soft or squishy, it feels very wooden. Any suggestions anyone can offer would be very appreciated.
Ride safe and thank you, Jon

Fwiw, the rear brakes on my ‘19 V9 Bobber Sport are worthless too. A tiny bit better after bleeding and lightly sanding the rotor. I’m curious how your new pads worked out for you

 

[DeadEye]

In my workshop, I bled brakes on motorcycles of every marque literally every other day or so.

Your brakes need to be flushed and properly bled. I under that they feel wooden and not squishy. Regardless, the proper function and feel will be restored.

The process of bleeding brakes is very simple. It’s not magic. It’s engineering. All you are doing is ensuring that brake fluid fills the entire brake line with no trapped air. Air can be compressed and gives that spongy feeling in the lever. Brake fluid cannot be compressed, and when all air is purged from the line, the lever feels solid and firm.

So to do this:

1. Open master cylinder cap.

2. Using plastic syringe, I remove all contaminated fluid from the reservoir.

3. I utilize 3-4 cotton swabs held together to pat against the reservoir bottom and absorb any remaining debris or contaminants from inside the master cylinder reservoir, and I also gently swab out the master cylinder sight glass from inside the master cylinder with 1 single cotton swab because brown contamination usually is stuck on the inside of the sight glass window. (When you pull out the swab, you will see the brown or black debris on it which has been wiped from the inside of the sight glass window)

4. I remove all previous fluid from the master cylinder by patting these cotton swabs to absorb the fluid, HOWEVER be sure that you do not snag the cotton swabs in anything inside the reservoir, just pat them like a mop to absorb the contaminated fluid, and NEVER touch the brake lever with the reservoir empty! You can safely empty the reservoir to near dry condition by just patting the cotton swabs on the fluid at the bottom of the reservoir, so long as you do not touch the lever. This leaves the line full of fluid but no air enters!

5. Refill master cylinder with clean, fresh brake fluid. The reservoir will now be full of fluid that is absolutely clear in color.

5. I attach a long clear (~ 2.5’ length) tubing to the bleed screw by simply sliding it tightly over the nipple. The other end is inside of my waste fluid catch bottle. It does not need to be under brake fluid or anything like that. (We will observe a continuous flow of brake fluid through this tubing in a moment).

6. Crack open the bleed valve by turning counterclockwise with your wrench just to the point where you feel the screw break loose, then turn it back every so gently clockwise to just reseat it back closed but not tight.

6. Gently squeeze the brake lever a few times to establish a solid working pressure and while holding the brake lever in, turn your bleed screw back counterclockwise very slowly and ever so slightly until the lever begins to slowly and smoothly move inward, thereby expelling the brake fluid under pressure. The opening of the bleed valve is such that the resistance you are looking for in the hydraulic line when under pressure from the lever, is one of being slightly resistant but not free flowing. The lever should be collapsing slowly and uniformly as the fluid is pushed out the bleed nipple.

7. Once you find this point in the bleed valve, it then becomes a simple matter. With the bleed valve still in this slightly cracked open position, I continue to squeeze the brake lever smoothly and uniformly while observing the continuous stream of old brake fluid now passing through my plastic tubing. There will be no air bubbles anywhere. Just a smooth continuous line of brake fluid, passing through the tubing. (Do not let the master cylinder go empty!)

8. As the master cylinder begins to empty, I refill it again with fresh brake fluid and continue this bleeding process for 3 refills of the master cylinder. This ensures that all previous old fluid and any contaminants are pushed out the brake line and out the bleed nipple.

9. As I get through the 3rd refill of fresh brake fluid in the master cylinder, while gently and smoothly squeezing the brake lever, I close the bleed valve completely and snugly with my wrench. (Don’t crush it, just closed and a little more to tighten.). Upon squeezing the lever again a few times, you will find the pressure and resistance in the line to be very solid and firm. The line from the master cylinder to the bleed screw, is now full of nothing but fresh clean brake fluid.

10. Repeat the same process for each individual brake caliper attached to the master cylinder. (1 or 2 in the front). 1 in the rear (attached to the other master cylinder fluid reservoir).

I can do this process by myself without issue. Some people use an assistant and that is fine but unnecessary.

The secret here is tuning your amount of opening the bleed screw so that the fluid that is pushed out of the bleed nipple, is pushed out under light resistance and pressure. You should have to squeeze the lever and pressurize the system to push the fluid out of the line. If the brake lever just immediately and quickly moves all the way through its stroke, then the bleed valve is open too much. If it hardly moves or moves excessively slow, it’s not opened enough. Find the correct opening! You want that continuous but light back-pressure resistance against your squeezing of the brake lever. We want to expel the fluid out under pressure.

The plastic line also visually shows you the fluid being pushed through. You won’t see any bubbles if you have the bleed screw opened correctly. If it is too open, air will enter from the threads area.

scott, thank you for the detailed walk through, I do crank the bleed screw wide open and have the lever go thump.
( I am doing all the little jobs, I’ve postponed now that I have to send the instruments cluster away and get the tires changed)

I appreciate the time you put into sharing your experience with us.
Don