V7 C-S Suspension Thread

[Ozzy Michael]

Hi Folks. About to get a V7lll Anniversario with Icon rear shocks but stock front ?? NON progressive fork springs. I would like o know if changing to Icon progressive front springs make any significant and noticeable differences? I am told the rear shocks upgrade is much more worth doing than the front ??
Cheers
Michael

 

[jpv7]

It really depends on a few things: Are you a new rider or experienced? Have you ridden a bike with a decent front fork? If you have, you will understand that the stock fork is junk.

Will you just cruise around the city, or do you like to carve canyons at a brisk pace? If cruising, then you will get your rear shocks and mount your bags and be done with it as the majority do on the v7.

If you want to ride briskly and be in control, get proper fork springs for your weight and fix the valving too. Don't just do the fancy preload adjusters that you don't need.

I would fix the fork first, then worry about the shocks. But it really depends on you, and how you plan to use the bike.

 

[GTM®]

Quite simply, the bike must be balanced with springs and valving front to rear. Think of it like a car... if the shocks were worn out, would you just replace the front or rear only?
This thread covers almost any questions you'll have. Spend some time and read up.

 

[TBro]

Just wanted to provide a quick update. After a very busy travel schedule and a harsh MN winter, I finally got around to installing my K-Tech Lite shocks and the Mupo Fork Spring Kit I ordered from Todd on my V7II Stone. Still dialing everything in, but out of the box this bike has been transformed. I'm kicking myself for finding excuses to not get this project done sooner. As a 230 lb rider, the stock suspension was bone rattling. Not anymore after Todd specked everything to my weight. Longer rides will no longer be a concern on this bike. It disappears when in needs to, and handles aggressively when you want it to. Of all the suspension options Todd sells on his site, the bang for the buck factor with this combination far exceeds what I payed for it. Thanks Todd for your recommendation and guidance.

 

[Ozzy Michael]

It really depends on a few things: Are you a new rider or experienced? Have you ridden a bike with a decent front fork? If you have, you will understand that the stock fork is junk.

Will you just cruise around the city, or do you like to carve canyons at a brisk pace? If cruising, then you will get your rear shocks and mount your bags and be done with it as the majority do on the v7.

If you want to ride briskly and be in control, get proper fork springs for your weight and fix the valving too. Don't just do the fancy preload adjusters that you don't need.

I would fix the fork first, then worry about the shocks. But it really depends on you, and how you plan to use the bike.

Thanks for your good comments.

Australia is a big place and within a few days of taking delivery of this bike which had just under 2000 miles on the clock, i rode one day about 9 hours with 2 short stops. at the end i thought i should donate my bum to medical science. since then on much shorter rides i took my wife as pillion and she thought she should get a mouth guard ( i am not sure that's a bad idea?). not the touring comfort of our Road King about 20 years ago, however loving the V7 lll and need to do some sag measurements to learn how to adjust those rear shocks. No one has commented on the Icon brand. and to answer your question a lot of the rides will be short to a coffee shop while occasionally a half day up the mountains might be the call. so if you know anyone who has tried the icon front fork springs, i would love their opinion on them. it certainly sounds like most people get a lot out of matching front and back. also not many comments from V7lll (2017) owners. i thought there were some changed from the V7ll ?
cheers
michael

 

[Godfrey]

V7III Racer here. Stock setup with Öhlins rear suspension units and the usual Kaifa front end. Stock springing is intended for a 170lb rider. Front suspension is crude, being charitable about it.

I weigh 250lbs. No amount of just adjustment would make it work right for me.

Fitted the next range up Öhlins springs to the rear, set damping at the defaults. Fitted a Matris dual adjustable, preload adjustable fork cartridge kit with springs tuned to my weight up front and set the damping at the defaults. Set sag at both ends by the numbers, then tweaked the rears up a half turn and the fronts down a half turn. Rode 500 miles, decreased front compression damping by two clicks. Rode another 300 miles and increased rear rebound damping by two clicks.

It's perfect now, cannot get better.

 

[Ozzy Michael]

Thanks Godfrey. yours sounds a very good set up.
i am 170 lbs so made for the stock stuff. I do also carry a 165lb pillion at times. so it sounds like an upgrade for the front forks would be worthwhile. from different respected local experts, one says a progressive front spring, another says non progressive with less preload...
?any comments?
cheers
michael

 

[timax]

Michael , where in Au are you? Im in Sydney and have Todds Razor rear shocks but havnt done the front yet.
Tim

 

[Godfrey]

Thanks Godfrey. yours sounds a very good set up.
i am 170 lbs so made for the stock stuff. I do also carry a 165lb pillion at times. so it sounds like an upgrade for the front forks would be worthwhile. from different respected local experts, one says a progressive front spring, another says non progressive with less preload...

Well, if you’re on a V7III Racer, and you want it to handle properly two up, you’re going to need the same setup as me, and you’ll want to adjust the preload when you’re carrying a pillion passenger. Don’t know about the other models, but the Racer was definitely tuned for monoposto riding.

I have no opinion on the straight vs progressive wind springs. I just handed my weight requirements to Todd and Matris and what they supplied was what we installed. I figure Matris knows better than I do what works well... ! All I can say is that the springs and damping they supplied is right on the money.

 

[Ozzy Michael]

Hi Tim
presently up in Yeppoon Rockhampton area, generally go between Airlie Beach to Gold Coast and in between. after your rear shocks, do you think you need the front changed? do you have a V7 lll ? or ll ? your weight? and ? pillion
cheers
michael

 

[timax]

Im 72 kg , my wife is 60 kg and luggage say ?? 25kg Custom valving and springs by Todd.
Bike is a V7ll special and i only cruise. Not a skilled rider in the twisties . I do think the front is a little soft and lacks precision though so a more skilled ridder would really notice. I will do the Matris cartridges at some stage.

 

[socalrob]

If it's been running fine since, it was most likely just a transitory computer glitch. Check your battery connections and ground connections, then just keep going. Life's too short to keep worrying about this kinda stuff.

The fork on the V7s is a bit crude, I agree, but seems to be serviceable. It just doesn't have the kind of damping and compliance that the rest of the chassis and the rear suspension deserves. That flat spot or 'tire out of balance' feeling on my bike I felt too, once or twice, and I think it was the traction control system being subtly over-sensitive. The default setting on the TC system was level 2 ... I reset it to level 1 and have since not noticed any such feeling at all since.

I decided to upgrade my Racer end to end on suspension: At the front, a Matris dual adjustable, preload adjustable set of fork cartridges with springs properly matched to my weight. At the rear, a pair of the next range up Öhlins springs (I'm a big guy at about 255 lbs; to get close to the right sag with the stock springs, I've had the preload pushed up to near the two-up maximum preload limit).

Another piece of the suspension puzzle is that the stock wheels and tubed, bias-ply tires challenge the suspension a bit with unspung weight. So I've got a set of the Kineo wheels and a set of Conti RoadAttack3 radial tires coming too. When GT gets everything in, I'll ride down there and we'll install all of it, get it all adjusted properly, and I'll ride home on an almost completely new bike...

This stuff is expensive, but Racer is such a fine, happy little machine it deserves to be pampered. I decided that I'd rather give it the money and development than buy another bike, so my small but growing fund for the nice used Griso or V11 Sport fantasy was repurposed into making Racer even happier.


"Everything to excess, moderation is for monks." – The Notebooks of Lazarus Long

I’ve got the piggyback matris shocks on the back and the fully adjustable matris cartridges in the front, and the bike is completely transformed. Have them reasonably dialed in. Very comfortable over road bumps and joints. Sometimes I even ride over potholes just to feel the suspension soak it up. There are a few transition ramps on my commute that I can now rail on at 90 mph with good feeling. At high speeds getting a bit of float, so may need to change a click or two. Last adjustment I made was to add a bit of preload to the front and one click compression on the front, and it helped settle the bike on sweepers noticeably.

Regarding the Kineo wheels, does anybody know what the weight difference is between the stock wheels with tube tires and Kineo wheels with tubeless tires?

My bike is a V7iii Anniversario.

 

[Godfrey]

...
Regarding the Kineo wheels, does anybody know what the weight difference is between the stock wheels with tube tires and Kineo wheels with tubeless tires?

My bike is a V7iii Anniversario.

Todd has it in a thread somewhere here on the site, but IIRC the weight of the wheels alone is 4 or 5 lbs less per wheel, then you consider the weight loss of removing the tubes, and the fact that the Conti RA3 tires weigh less in the same size front and rear than the OEM Pirelli Sport Demons. The total is probably about 6 to 9 lbs per wheel of weight savings, which is quite significant for unsprung AND rotating masses...! Racer feels much livelier with them: they spin up just that little bit more easily, and the brakes work just that bit better slowing them down as well. Couple that with the better grip, the slightly faster steering (from dropping the steering head 10mm on the fork stanchions), etc, and the much more controlled and compliant suspension—it's almost like a different bike in some ways.

 

[socalrob]

Todd has it in a thread somewhere here on the site, but IIRC the weight of the wheels alone is 4 or 5 lbs less per wheel, then you consider the weight loss of removing the tubes, and the fact that the Conti RA3 tires weigh less in the same size front and rear than the OEM Pirelli Sport Demons. The total is probably about 6 to 9 lbs per wheel of weight savings, which is quite significant for unsprung AND rotating masses...! Racer feels much livelier with them: they spin up just that little bit more easily, and the brakes work just that bit better slowing them down as well. Couple that with the better grip, the slightly faster steering (from dropping the steering head 10mm on the fork stanchions), etc, and the much more controlled and compliant suspension—it's almost like a different bike in some ways.

You are killing me. The Kineo wheels are Uber expensive but I can see the benefits. I wish there were equivalent wheels for about $2,500 after tax instead of the $3,500 after tax. Of course my cheap option is to seal the oem rims (on my Anniversario they are aluminum wheels and look pretty nice).

Will say, reading through this thread, many folks are missing the fantastic improvement of the Matris fork kit Todd sells. With what I have done front and back suspension wise, the suspension went from maybe the bike’s worst attribute to its best. The tail bone pain over relatively minor bumps are distant memories.

 

[Mayakovski]

You are killing me. The Kineo wheels are Uber expensive but I can see the benefits. I wish there were equivalent wheels for about $2,500 after tax instead of the $3,500 after tax.

Even worse for those of us in Canada, with the exchange rate and shipping and taxes I would be looking at almost $5000 for front and rear wheels . Ouch.

The Matris for kit is on my list, hopefully this summer, but for certain by next summer.

 

[Godfrey]

The Matris cartridge kit is for sure a huge benefit and the Kineo wheels/radial tires are for sure expensive upgrades. But they raise the level of what one can expect out of the V7 up to a new baseline ...

I consider them what Guzzi would have built into the bike if they weren't trying to keep the price of the V7 down in the sub-$10K affordable range and instead were building the next price-bracket-up machines ($10-18K) with the 750cc motor. Getting suspension that works this well is definitely worth that kind of money to me! I need good suspension ... a comfortable ride, good handling, etc etc ... much more than I need more power, although there are those that mistake more power for "better performance" all the time.

 

[GTM®]

The thread is pretty clear to see as it's a pinned topic on the main page; https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/kineo-v7-wheels.15872/

The Kineo wheels are Uber expensive but I can see the benefits. I wish there were equivalent wheels for about $2,500 after tax instead of the $3,500 after tax.

If/when you are serious to buy, contact me direct email and we'll work something out favorable for you since you are local.

 

[egschade]

I installed Hagon shocks that are 20mm longer than OEM. Probably yielded a similar geometry change as dropping the forks and 1) gave me more compliance, 2) proper spring for my weight and 3) slightly higher seat height which helps the knees. Also installed Ikon progressive springs in the front. I'm not doing 85 MPH sweepers but front end does feel more planted and very stable doing my usual 50-70 on back roads and highways.

 

[TweeZ4]

I'm still into research about suspensions and setting up rear shocks with separate compression and rebound setting. The question is about the balance between compression and rebound damping. Whenever I buy good shocks I will have to dial them myself, thats why I seek for info.
So can anybody comment on my conclusions:
1) If I set up right sag (30%) and the preload is zero - does this mean that the spring is fairly firm for my weight (but still appropriate)? Or does zero preload (when the sag is correct) reflects ideal spring rate for my weight? Or should there be at least some preload on the ideal spring rate?
2) Lets assume that the spring is fairly firm, and I seek for maximal comfort. Is it correct that I should reduce compression damping and increase rebound damping for the softer ride? Cause I want firm spring compress easier and rebound not so fast.

Do I make right conclusions about how suspension works?

 

[Bulldog9]

Working on upgrading my Stornello suspension to give a bit more ride height, longer travel and of course better stability and comfort.

I've ordered a set of Hagon Enduro/Trail shocks at 420mm, and a set of K-TECH fork springs with 7.5 spring rate and changing out the fork oil with a lighter grade (5 to 7.5) to see how the stock valving reacts to this.

Questions:

1- Draining the oil out of the front forks. I'm assuming that the drain bolts are in the center of the lower part of the fork which will necessitate the removal of the front tire. This will definitely make pumping the forks to get all the old oil out interesting, but may just let it sit and drain/drip

2- Fork Oil level and recommended weight? Is this measured by volume or physical? Factory is 10W if I recall, and am thinking about 7.5 or possibly 5. I'm tracking 120ml with inserts/emulators, but not sure about plain old spring. Of course I need to look at the owners and service manuals.....

3 - Are there spacers in the forks of a V7ii? If so I assume they are at the top of the spring? Anything I need to be prepared for when I take off the caps other than to expect the cap to pop up from being under pressure?

4. Will report back. once I get all bolted in and on. Setting sag will be interesting...... Hagon is setting up the shocks with 3 spring pre-loads, the lowest being just my weight with two higher for when loaded with luggage or a pillion. The K-TECH fork springs do not call for a spacer, and as you all likely know there is no preload adjustment on the stock front forks. Here's hoping!