V7 II ENGINE FAILURES & CLUTCH ADJUST NOTICE!

[scott_m]

Scott, thank you for your thoughtful reply. I realize I've been pretty wound up about this whole issue. The way our situation has played out locally is the primary reason. After bringing in the bike to have the clutch engagement rod, needle roller thrust bearing, and clutch thrust bearing support replaced, we were informed that that the bike was going to need new engine cases. You can imagine our reaction. On a bike with 10k?! There is a lack of transparency over this (these) issue(s) with the V7II engines. All companies want to avoid the dreaded recall, so issuing technical bulletins to their dealers helps kick the problem down the road but leaves the owners in the dark. So I asked if we could trade the bike in and they won't take it on trade without us paying to disassemble it to find and fix the issue(s). This bike has been cared for by the book. I've been riding since 1970 and have had 10 motorcycles so I'm not new to this sport. There has to be a manufacturing defect or parts that are failing prematurely to cause all these issues.

You are most welcome. I will tell you my very honest opinion here.

I believe, with 100% certainty, that Moto Guzzi and its parent company, Piaggio, have been a GODSEND to Moto Guzzi. They have stepped up to the plate on so many occasions that I am aware of, and handled people, that I have nothing but good things to say about them.

A major and unbelievably expensive one was the 8V flat tappets issue. Moto Guzzi stepped up and up and up and up when in truth, they didn't have to. They did it because they were ethical.

Everything you ever wanted to know about the 1200 8V engine tappet failure but were afraid to ask.

BEFORE WE GET STARTED, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU UNDERSTAND THIS Nobody can perfectly diagnose a motorcycle issue fully and competently via a description and a sound clip over the internet. Experienced individuals may be able to narrow the issue down, and even have a strong opinion about...

www.guzzitech.com

Why in God's name you would need a new engine case, I cannot fathom, and any dealer who doesn't want to bid a trade in, even one with the need for some repairs, just perplexes me to no end. I would never have done that at my dealership. You would have been out the door in 25 minutes on a new motorcycle and me with a new trade in to fix and sell for a profit. Period.

Have you spoken with Piaggio? Also, maybe you might want to solicit an offer from another dealer? Just a suggestion.

 

[V700Steve]

If it were my bike, I'd be calling past large dealers to see if they have the wear plates. Harpers sold lots of smalblocks.

 

[GTM®]

Why in God's name you would need a new engine case, I cannot fathom, and any dealer who doesn't want to bid a trade in, even one with the need for some repairs

My $.02 Scott, because all of the replacements have been full unit/engine warranty replacements. I've never seen a dealer split the cases. I did on one just to see for myself if the shim bearings were missing, they were. Most dealers sadly don't have any techs that are knowledgeable or $ willing to do the job required, and they simply would rather unbolt/re-bolt. Sad times, which is why you and I are busier than ever.

 

[Vagrant]

If AF1 told you that I'd be prone to believe them as they have experience. If another newer or smaller dealer did I'd get it to AF1 for a second opinion.

 

[willt]

Hello everybody! My first post on the forum because I am looking at a 2016 V7 II Stornello with only 1500 miles for sale locally. Knowing little about Guzzis, I was using this forum to educate myself about the Stornello and found this thread. Now I am afraid to consider buying it unless I hear some encouragement from you all. From reading this thread it looks like most if not all of the bad motors were in Stones. I have read that the Stornello was a limited edition bike with only 1000 made but, bottom line, is the Stone and Stornello engine the exact same thing? 1500 miles might not be enough to have the problem show it's self yet and I would really hate to buy a bike and ride it 500 miles, have it break and basically be told it can not be repaired.
So if you would please, let me know if the Stone and Stornello are the same engine. Also I saw from the first post the vins of effected bikes reported here ended between 099 and 584. If the bike I am looking at has a vin number way out of this range, would you guess it safe?
Thanks,
Wm

​

 

[GTM®]

If the bike I am looking at has a vin number way out of this range, would you guess it safe?

That would be the assumption. I am not aware of any Stornello that had this issue, but in the World of Guzzi, nothing is safe to assume. The test in the first post here can be (somewhat easily) done to verify any issues prior to purchase.

 

[memorabe]

Hey guys,

Another one bites the dust:
V7 II Racer #189/1000
VIN ZGULWUB25GM200180 engine AN016311 production date 10/2015.
1,210 miles
March 30th, 2022

After a week at the dealer they told me the bad news: the engine was defective from the factory yadda yadda yadda and they immediately authorized an engine replacement. Month and a half later there’s no signs of the new engine, factory has been having trouble shipping parts etc…

I’ll keep you posted .

 

[GTM®]

Another one bites the dust:
V7 II Racer #189/1000
VIN ZGULWUB25GM200180 engine AN016311 production date 10/2015.
1,210 miles
March 30th, 2022

After a week at the dealer they told me the bad news: the engine was defective from the factory yadda yadda yadda and they immediately authorized an engine replacement. Month and a half later there’s no signs of the new engine, factory has been having trouble shipping parts etc…

I’ll keep you posted .

Sorry to hear, and thanks for posting. Please do keep us updated on the progress, mostly when it's ready to ride again.

 

[ChrisL]

Hi all, I have another potential. It happend yesterday (5-28), so I haven't had it to the shop yet. During the ride I noticed a noise. The best comparison I can make is that I remember it sounding like a small supercharger. The noise seemed to be pretty constant. Then suddenly after about 10 miles it started to get much worse, very quickly. As fast as I noticed that the noise was getting worse, I also had to start adding more throttle just to maintain speed. Since I knew about the topic of this thread, I reached up and shut off the engine. So unless it seized as it shut down, it should still turn. I haven't tried to find that out yet, I'm still feeling the shock and frustration that this has caused.

2016 V7II Stone
ZGULWUB02GM200300
AN014953
12,386 miles

My plan of action so far is to start by finding out if the engine will still turn over manually.
Then if it does, I'm going to ask the dealer to do the endfloat test.
If it doesn't, then I'm going to suggest that the thrust bearing was omitted.
Either way, my fear is that I'm going to be told to go pound sand.

If any/all of this seems folly, I'm open to criticism. This is my first experience with a severe mechanical failure.

 

[GTM®]

During the ride I noticed a noise. The best comparison I can make is that I remember it sounding like a small supercharger. The noise seemed to be pretty constant. Then suddenly after about 10 miles it started to get much worse, very quickly. As fast as I noticed that the noise was getting worse, I also had to start adding more throttle just to maintain speed.

Several of these models had a "screeching" sound from the alternator, that I've still never tracked down. It went away with a shut down/key off, and restart. If you're positive it took more throttle to maintain speed, drain the oil and see if you find anything on the drain plug or if the oil looks like it has a metallic swirl to it. Most happened within the first several thousand miles max.

 

[ChrisL]

Ok, thank you. Sounds weird to say, but I would be relieved if it is a throw out bearing. I did check and the engine is not seized so that's a plus.

 

[ChrisL]

Drained the oil tonight and there is some swirl to the oil, and a tiny bit on the magnet of the rear drain pulg. I would have expected to see a lot more than I did, but it is there. Since the end float measurement is done where the starter is, do you think it would be possible for me to remove the starter and work the clutch to see if the flywheel moves?

 

[GTM®]

Since the end float measurement is done where the starter is, do you think it would be possible for me to remove the starter and work the clutch to see if the flywheel moves?

You can try it, but likely because of the pressure on the clutch assy, you likely wont see it move much. It requires substantial force with the tool.

 

[Midnite]

Mine seized at just over 11k, for what it’s worth. Gave zero warning before it went, save the telltale clutch adjustment issue.

 

[ChrisL]

You can try it, but likely because of the pressure on the clutch assy, you likely wont see it move much.

I removed the starter, and worked the clutch. I can see the flywheel move, but it is very minimal just like you predicted. Is there a way to test if the throw out bearing is bad aside from removing it and looking?

A bit of information I didn't mention before is that this happened on the 2nd ride after adjusting the clutch. I didn't have any shifting problems when it was loose, but I knew that it isn't spec so I made the adjustment.

Mine seized at just over 11k

After geting past 8,000 I thought I was in the clear. Then I saw a couple reports that were over 10,000 and my concern was raised again.

 

[Cendra]

Hi,

I'm afraid after what I've read here ...
My clutch is quite heavy, I thought it was the cable's fault.
Could my VIN number: ZGULWUB00GM200201 be at risk?
What to do to be sure and avoid engine trouble?
The mileage is less than 9,000 miles.

 

[Vagrant]

With that many miles you should be fine. You need to use waterproof grease on every pivot point from the transmission to the clutch lever and don't forget the pin that is in the arm on the tranny. The pre 850 engines do take a bit of strength if you have weaker or older hands. If you changed your clutch lever to a off brand one you made it even worse.

 

[Jimmy_]

J, I am writing you as it appears that you were given the thumbs up on an engine replacement just last month. My wife and I had a conversation with our dealer yesterday after she had her clutch pushrod and bearing replaced (part numbers 2A000376, GU14086000, GU20085720) on her 2016 V7 II Special at 10,431 miles. It has exhibited all the difficulties with finding neutral and needing frequent clutch adjustments. The conversation was less than candid but we were told that there are no more V7II replacement engines. We were also told that although their system says the bearings that support the crank can be ordered, there are none in the U.S. From their experience they told us that they could be discontinued at any time as that has happened with other parts in the past. I'm leaving out a lot of detail for now but my question to you is did get approval for a replacement engine in February 2022? Thank you.

Hi JC3:

I have a v7 2014 stone and like your wife's bike it's still having the same issues after changing the pushrod, bearings, cable, and plenty of adjustments in different positions. I would say there is a mild improvement but that just means it ages a little longer till it stuggles to shift gear.

My bikes done around 17000m, so thought if it was engine issue fron the factory it would have stopped working by now. Sounds like you have high miles too, and made the mainn corrections I have. Id be interested to hear if youve found the solution yet?

This is my journey to fix so far, but run out of ideas to check. https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/v7-stone-2014-clutch-issues.23463/

Thanks,
Jimmy

 

[JC3]

Jimmy,

I apologize for the slow response. Unfortunately my wife has been unable to ride her bike very much due to the failing health of her Mom. The interesting thing is that after changing out the same parts that you did there was only a mild improvement in the issues she was having. The last thing the dealer tried was replacing the clutch cable. The improvement was significant. Since she has not been able to put many miles on it we don't know if the improvement will last. She said the bike is transformed compared to the way it had shifted since she has owned it.
I purchased a 1976 BMW R90/6 new. That bike had no clutch issues until 50k and all it did then was slip if you gave it full throttle. That was my base line of experience with an air cooled dry clutch motorcycle. To encounter all these issues at 10k miles on the V7II was incredibly frustrating as you well know. I own a V85TT and it's the only Guzzi I've ever owned. It has maybe the best clutch I've ever used. The bike has close to 25k with no issues. My wife is short in stature but I want to see if I can get her comfortable on my bike and possibly replace hers with a used V85. I love the look of the V7 but new, well cared for bikes should not have major issues in the sub 10k mile range.

 

[Jimmy_]

Hi JC3

Jimmy,

I apologize for the slow response. Unfortunately my wife has been unable to ride her bike very much due to the failing health of her Mom. The interesting thing is that after changing out the same parts that you did there was only a mild improvement in the issues she was having. The last thing the dealer tried was replacing the clutch cable. The improvement was significant. Since she has not been able to put many miles on it we don't know if the improvement will last. She said the bike is transformed compared to the way it had shifted since she has owned it.
I purchased a 1976 BMW R90/6 new. That bike had no clutch issues until 50k and all it did then was slip if you gave it full throttle. That was my base line of experience with an air cooled dry clutch motorcycle. To encounter all these issues at 10k miles on the V7II was incredibly frustrating as you well know. I own a V85TT and it's the only Guzzi I've ever owned. It has maybe the best clutch I've ever used. The bike has close to 25k with no issues. My wife is short in stature but I want to see if I can get her comfortable on my bike and possibly replace hers with a used V85. I love the look of the V7 but new, well cared for bikes should not have major issues in the sub 10k mile range.

Hi JC3,

Sorry to hear, hope she feels better soon and your wife can get back on the road soon.

Thanks for letting me know the results, very similar to mine. I've changed the cable too following the rod etc but although it made a slight improvement it hasn't been the solution for me. Anyway good luck, hopefully the cable improvements stay and that did the trick.

If not let me know and I'll continue to share anything that works for me in the future.

Happy riding,
Jimmy