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Everything you ever wanted to know about the 1200 8V engine tappet failure but were afraid to ask.

UPDATED 10/12/202

I am attaching 2 TSB (Technical Service Bulletins) - merged into 1 PDF file - regarding Moto Guzzi's Official Position on this issue.

PLEASE READ THEM COMPLETELY BEFORE JUST SHOOTING OFF QUESTIONS! IT ANSWERS EVERYTHING ABOUT THEIR POSITION, WHICH KIT TO USE, ETC. THANKS! - Scott
 

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I posted on the Stelvio thread, but this may be a more appropriate place to ask the question. I'll try to delete the other thread.
Does anyone know how to visually tell if you have 'A' or 'B' kit cam boxes? Casting numbers, etc? Last June I ordered a kit for a 2012 Stelvio with engine #AC 012424 with drill marks in heads.
The kit I received has nothing on the boxes specifying A,B,C, or D (the boxes were actually open, with 1 set of hemispheric buttons and grounding tang loose in box, so I think someone was in there before). But anyway, the parts are all there. The AF1 site also appears to use the same photo for all 4 kits so I can't tell from that. I hadn't gotten to this job yet, so I took off this week to do it and some other projects. I haven't gotten very far; I took apart my left side cylinder yesterday and started questioning the differences I saw. After a flurry of emails with Todd between yesterday and today trying to figure this out, Todd pointed me to his forums this morning for support. So I will attach 2 photos; one has my original left side cam box next to the new one I got, the other photo is the new right side cam box.
Can anyone tell me what I have here? I want to get this together, but I don't want to install incorrect parts and make this situation worse.
Thanks!
Gerry
 

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I'm pretty sure the Camboxes themselves are identical in all the Kits, it's just the parts they come with that make the kits different, such as Valve Spring Shims, Head Gaskets, etc.

You can make up the most expensive Kit for the Early 1200s (the one that requires the Heads to come off), by buying the cheapest Kit, and buying all the other parts you need separately, it works out a fair bit cheaper, apparently.
The pricey Kit comes with all 3 thickness Head Gaskets for example, when you obviously could just buy the correct one for your particular Engine.

All the Roller Camboxes are basically from the 1400 Engines, hence the second 'hole' where the second Spark Plug would be on those.
 
I guess what I really need to know is what is the difference between the A and B kit as far as parts go. In our last email, Todd sent a link to the B kit saying that is what I have. But being a 2012, it seems I need an A kit. Looking at the service bulletin earlier in this thread, I can't tell what's different. 'A' kit has a similar illustration to 'B' kit other than some casting numbers that I can't match up on any of my parts. I'm hoping to hear back from Todd soon, but if anyone can contribute more info to this, please do! I'm on day 2 of what should have been a 1 day job.
 
Does yours have these markings?
24055727989_9082784aa1.jpg

Inner side of the 'V', you can just about see by looking down from above, over the top of the Valve Cover.
Either side, if one has it, they both will.
I would expect a 2012 to have them, my 2009 does.
 
Yes, it does. The confusion for me comes in when looking at the TSB. The chart says that from mid 2010 on, all Stelvios would use kit A. And my valve cover corresponds to the picture for the kit A requirement.
Kit B asks about the mark in the head, but shows it is for the earlier model valve cover.
And Todd said I was sent a B kit. Maybe that is in error; this is what I am trying to determine.

Looking closer at the TSB, Kit A shows seals for the valve cover at the spark plug hole included. Kit B shows o-rings, which I received in my kit. So my thinking tells me I got a kit B but most likely need Kit A according to everything I read.
 
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There's also a chart somewhere showing which kits goes with which model/year.
I keep coming across it on various forums, but can I find it when I need it . . . :banghead:

Must save it when I do this time . . .
 
Isn't it in the TSB in post #82 just above? That's what I've been going by.
 
GerryL said:
Yes, it does. The confusion for me comes in when looking at the TSB. The chart says that from mid 2010 on, all Stelvios would use kit A. And my valve cover corresponds to the picture for the kit A requirement.
Kit B asks about the mark in the head, but shows it is for the earlier model valve cover.
And Todd said I was sent a B kit. Maybe that is in error; this is what I am trying to determine.
Looking closer at the TSB, Kit A shows seals for the valve cover at the spark plug hole included. Kit B shows o-rings, which I received in my kit. So my thinking tells me I got a kit B but most likely need Kit A according to everything I read.
Click to expand...
Post a photo of the bottom of your valve covers, showing the spark plug tube sealing ring. All of the kits are in large the same outside of the oldest kits use the oldest style valve cover, where the o-ring is in a groove in the valve cover itself.
 
Here they are.
 

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So you are confident the cam tower/box assemblies are the same for A and B kits? And it's only the seals/o-rings that are different? Regarding the o-rings I got, those aren't for around the tube? In email we discussed the fact that the old cam towers had an o-ring groove in the bore for the tube. The new towers I got have no groove, but they do have a machined surface on the bottom; So the o-ring sandwiches between the bottom of the cam tower and the top of the head (but around the tube; the tube fits loosely in the bore of the cam tower). And I keep my same valve cover seal. Does that all sound right? Sorry for being so persistent with questions, but I can't afford to grenade this engine. Say the word and I'll continue assembling. :)
 
John Warner said:
There's also a chart somewhere showing which kits goes with which model/year.
I keep coming across it on various forums, but can I find it when I need it . . . :banghead:

Must save it when I do this time . . .
Click to expand...

Umm, it's 6 posts above yours John. :)

#82
 
I just had mine replaced by a newer Moto Guzzi Dealer in the area, after my 18K service showed significant wear on the cam surfaces. I believe my 2010 took the "b" kit, but I need to confirm.

I asked them about any goodwill coverage from MG as I have stayed on top of maintenance and have all service records. At first they said no, I would need to create my own case directly with MG (??). It took about 3 months for the parts to arrive, and before picking up the bike, I asked again. He said he'd check with his MG rep from Piaggio. A couple days later they tell me that my model is not covered by the Goodwill (??). This is after a ~$2000 bill to cover the parts and labor.

Are 2010's not covered, or has it time lapsed?
 
Hello.

I suspect that you are not the original owner perhaps?

If you are not, Moto Guzzi will undoubtedly deny any assistance and rightfully so.

If you are the original owner, I would still expect them to deny assistance as it has been 12 years. From their perspective, the bike served 12 years, 10 years past the warranty, and now this is considered wear and tear and not covered.

If they didn’t do this then everybody with every issue would seek compensation many years past the warranty period.

Either way, as I wrote in the original posting, this was not a recall and nobody was entitled to anything other that the terms of the original 2 year unlimited mileage warranty.

Many years ago, Moto Guzzi made goodwill gestures to customers who demonstrated an actual failure of the components, however they did not offer to “fix” motorcycles that were not exhibiting a failure. Their official position was that if it wasn’t broken, then it wasn’t eligible for goodwill.

I suspect that your motorcycle fell into this category.

Sorry, but this one’s on you.
 
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Old thread, but related question, hope it's ok to ask here;

When buying a used bike with higher mileage that was converted to rollers, does it matter much at what mileage the conversion was done? Like, if the bike has been ridden for a long time with flat tappets before the conversion, any kind of permanent damage that could have occurred, or shouldn't it matter really?
 
How many miles since it was Rollerised?
If it's done a good amount, say 5000+, I'd be fairly confident it's not going to be a risk.
There is a chance if the Flats are left too long (after the DLC starts to break down), that particles of the Coating can get to the Bearing Shells, and cause premature wear.

Can you trace the history at all, maybe the dealer recorded the state of the Flats at removal?
I think they have to send proof (photographic?) to Piaggio, to get the Kit.
 
John Warner said:
How many miles since it was Rollerised?
If it's done a good amount, say 5000+, I'd be fairly confident it's not going to be a risk.
There is a chance if the Flats are left too long (after the DLC starts to break down), that particles of the Coating can get to the Bearing Shells, and cause premature wear.

Can you trace the history at all, maybe the dealer recorded the state of the Flats at removal?
I think they have to send proof (photographic?) to Piaggio, to get the Kit.
Click to expand...
Not sure, going to check it out later today and try to find out as much as possible. the bike has around 40-45k miles and I know the seller is locally known as a big Guzzi fan so pretty sure it's well cared for, but I'm not sure if it makes a difference if that bike was rollerised at 5k or at 35k.

There's another one I saw where asking price is CAD 1000 more, and it only has around 6000 miles on it, but it's a bit of a long drive to get it (located in Vancouver, I'm in Calgary). Owner said it's a factory roller engine. I feel that one might be the better value but then again a 10yr old bike that seemed to sit still for so long can have its own share of issues. Both are 2012s
 
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