I've already had a couple of long chats with Todd about this, but here goes anyway:
I have my Norge for about 1.5 years now, 24k km on the clock, never any problems starting other than a slightly low idle on a cold engine on cold days that can cause a stall (surfaced after the 10k km. service).
Did about 300km the weekend before last (she ran beautifully), then another 95 or so last Friday evening to go to my gf's place on the country side. No issues. Temperatures the last couple of weeks have been going up and down, but never below say 6ºC at night (dash read between 15º and 11ºC during last Friday's ride). I left the bike (parked outside) during Saturday, and then intended to leave for a ride Sunday afternoon.
Contact - lightshow - OK. Hit starter button ...
CLICK
dash dies
lightshow
OK.
Hmmm. Hit starter again - CLICK - etc.
Damn ... 95km from home, and ride projects the next week. Looking at the dash voltage, I saw 10.5V (or so), but that continued to drop to a low of about 9.6V after leaving the contact on for a while.
Cut a long story short, didn't succeed to jump-start her using a booster provided by a neighbour, but push-starting worked. I did about 50km keeping her at no less than 2k rpm (interesting exercise - front-braking AND keeping the gas open!). Dash voltage read 13.5V while riding, which apparently charged the battery enough to hold idle, show 12.6V or so on the dash immediately after killing the engine and more importantly, allow her to start normally about 2h later.
Did the 95km back home to Paris, parked, and unhooked the negative pole just to be sure (about 20:30). Came back Monday afternoon around 15:30, hooked her back up, and she started fine. Took the battery out anyway to put it on a slow charger overnight. Following morning (a good 16h later), took it off the charger, immediate read-out was 14.5V (and falling), 12.88V after a few hours sitting on my desk. Had it load-tested later that evening, which apparently checked out fine. So I put the battery back in the bike (fiddly job when you only have sodium-style street-lighting available!). Dash said 11.8V after the lightshow (hmmm...), but the engine started fine. (In fact, I think that I've always seen a similar figure the few times I checked the voltage.) Haven't had the time to check the state of things this morning.
So, according to Todd, the most likely cause is a dying AGM battery. It's pointless here to try and have my factory warranty cover this, apparently (a new battery has a year's cover, but the ones bought with a new vehicle aren't covered?!), so I ordered a new one at the largest national MC retailer (Cardy). Hold your breath: a YTX20CH-BS (made by France Equipements) will set me back 234€, the Yuasa one would be 275€ OUCH!
I'm hoping that'll be all, and that it's indeed just my original battery that's dying prematurely. But what if not? My dealer tells me he's hardly seen any problems with batteries (and I'm presuming that includes de/charging issues). What would be the most logical place to start looking or testing myself? A leak or short or charging issue *ought* to be covered under warranty, but it'd be nice to be able to turn the bike in with a likely diagnosis ready.
Some additional questions:
- the manual says to put the kill switch in the Off (killed) position when messing with the battery. I indeed noticed that otherwise, the fuel pump runs (is tested?) when reconnecting the negative pole. So - is there less power-draw with the switch in the Off position?
- Getting at the battery poles is a big hassle, so I'm thinking of installing me a socket for hooking up a jump-starter more easily. I might just take a simple 2-wire mains cable with male and female plugs (female to be on the bike), that should support the power draw during starting, no? Any suggestions there (no, I also don't like the idea that someday I might be stupid enough to hook her up to the 220V AC through that socket :silly: )
- the bleed hose of the clutch circuit touches the negative pole. Seems very hard to avoid that. It's a metal-braided hose that appears to be covered with a clear layer of plastic or vinyl, but that can have worn through locally due to vibrations. I guess that shouldn't matter, but is it positively sure that this cannot be a source of a short or leak?
- For future reference - why is that battery so damn expensive? I've seen other 12V 18AH batteries by Yuasa that are (unfortunately) slightly larger and cost about 100€ less - and for which Todd showed me alternatives costing about 90$. Thing is, the battery compartment won't accept a battery that's even slightly larger (than 15x16x8 cm, IIRC). Any suggestions for cheaper replacements that are easily available in Western Europe would be very welcome! (Esp. if they have better cold-weather performance )
I'll keep you posted.
René
I have my Norge for about 1.5 years now, 24k km on the clock, never any problems starting other than a slightly low idle on a cold engine on cold days that can cause a stall (surfaced after the 10k km. service).
Did about 300km the weekend before last (she ran beautifully), then another 95 or so last Friday evening to go to my gf's place on the country side. No issues. Temperatures the last couple of weeks have been going up and down, but never below say 6ºC at night (dash read between 15º and 11ºC during last Friday's ride). I left the bike (parked outside) during Saturday, and then intended to leave for a ride Sunday afternoon.
Contact - lightshow - OK. Hit starter button ...
CLICK
dash dies
lightshow
OK.
Hmmm. Hit starter again - CLICK - etc.
Damn ... 95km from home, and ride projects the next week. Looking at the dash voltage, I saw 10.5V (or so), but that continued to drop to a low of about 9.6V after leaving the contact on for a while.
Cut a long story short, didn't succeed to jump-start her using a booster provided by a neighbour, but push-starting worked. I did about 50km keeping her at no less than 2k rpm (interesting exercise - front-braking AND keeping the gas open!). Dash voltage read 13.5V while riding, which apparently charged the battery enough to hold idle, show 12.6V or so on the dash immediately after killing the engine and more importantly, allow her to start normally about 2h later.
Did the 95km back home to Paris, parked, and unhooked the negative pole just to be sure (about 20:30). Came back Monday afternoon around 15:30, hooked her back up, and she started fine. Took the battery out anyway to put it on a slow charger overnight. Following morning (a good 16h later), took it off the charger, immediate read-out was 14.5V (and falling), 12.88V after a few hours sitting on my desk. Had it load-tested later that evening, which apparently checked out fine. So I put the battery back in the bike (fiddly job when you only have sodium-style street-lighting available!). Dash said 11.8V after the lightshow (hmmm...), but the engine started fine. (In fact, I think that I've always seen a similar figure the few times I checked the voltage.) Haven't had the time to check the state of things this morning.
So, according to Todd, the most likely cause is a dying AGM battery. It's pointless here to try and have my factory warranty cover this, apparently (a new battery has a year's cover, but the ones bought with a new vehicle aren't covered?!), so I ordered a new one at the largest national MC retailer (Cardy). Hold your breath: a YTX20CH-BS (made by France Equipements) will set me back 234€, the Yuasa one would be 275€ OUCH!
I'm hoping that'll be all, and that it's indeed just my original battery that's dying prematurely. But what if not? My dealer tells me he's hardly seen any problems with batteries (and I'm presuming that includes de/charging issues). What would be the most logical place to start looking or testing myself? A leak or short or charging issue *ought* to be covered under warranty, but it'd be nice to be able to turn the bike in with a likely diagnosis ready.
Some additional questions:
- the manual says to put the kill switch in the Off (killed) position when messing with the battery. I indeed noticed that otherwise, the fuel pump runs (is tested?) when reconnecting the negative pole. So - is there less power-draw with the switch in the Off position?
- Getting at the battery poles is a big hassle, so I'm thinking of installing me a socket for hooking up a jump-starter more easily. I might just take a simple 2-wire mains cable with male and female plugs (female to be on the bike), that should support the power draw during starting, no? Any suggestions there (no, I also don't like the idea that someday I might be stupid enough to hook her up to the 220V AC through that socket :silly: )
- the bleed hose of the clutch circuit touches the negative pole. Seems very hard to avoid that. It's a metal-braided hose that appears to be covered with a clear layer of plastic or vinyl, but that can have worn through locally due to vibrations. I guess that shouldn't matter, but is it positively sure that this cannot be a source of a short or leak?
- For future reference - why is that battery so damn expensive? I've seen other 12V 18AH batteries by Yuasa that are (unfortunately) slightly larger and cost about 100€ less - and for which Todd showed me alternatives costing about 90$. Thing is, the battery compartment won't accept a battery that's even slightly larger (than 15x16x8 cm, IIRC). Any suggestions for cheaper replacements that are easily available in Western Europe would be very welcome! (Esp. if they have better cold-weather performance )
I'll keep you posted.
René