V7 III Evap/Tip removal

[Ed Paaij]

Well, Paul, I've also been riding a long time (since 1975) and had a lot of motorcycles over the years (about 80 in total). This 2017 V7III Racer, however, is the very first motorcycle of all of those that actually has an evaporative emissions system.

... And the evap system's vacuum regulator valve failed nearly immediately. The gentleman at Piaggio/Moto Guzzi in Italy who had to program the engine's control computer (ECU) around its foibles told me, personally, that it was a POS and should be removed if possible.

From what I read here and on other motorcycle forums, this is not an isolated instance of problems caused by this system.

There's a first time for everything.

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Indeed, I have also been riding since 1968 and I decided I needed a Motorcycle that I could service myself and suitable for commuting. So I purchased a 2019 V7 III Special last month. Now I have never had a Moto Guzzi before and I had to go to Portland Oregon a 430 mile ride home since there are no dealers in Boise Idaho. I was surprised how the idle seemed rough and it some how felt like it lacked some torque below 2800 RPM. I thought perhaps it needed some miles on it and did nothing about it nor had I read any posts here about it. When I came home I put on some more miles and qt 980 miles decided to do the first service and I also removed the tank so I could route some wires under it for a power outlet. In any case I spotted the hose coming from the tank breather and that Canister was annoying me since it was in the way under the engine where I put a jack to raise the rear wheel. So I decided to remove this plastic junk while I had everything apart. SO I went to the Automotive parts store and found rubber vacuum caps and a small sintered metal fuel filter which fits in the rubber hose that comes from the tank. I then removed the canister and the hose from the inlet manifold plugged the inlet with the rubber cap and a hose clamp. And plugged the filter into the air inlet from the tank and finished my service and put everything back together. And surprise the idle was steady and I now have smooth torque from 1500 RPM onward (depending on gear) That is when I started to see if this was unique to my experience and it appears not. When I checked the one way valve that is supposed to only let air into the tank not out it did not work properly and I could blow air in both directions. This part seems to be a cheap part and I would replace it with a metal part with a spring and ball bearing if I wanted to keep the evap crap. Since I live in Idaho it is not needed so good riddance. That is my experience with it...

 

[David Pasquini]

Finally did the SAS and EVAP removal to complete the overhaul of my V7III exhaust. First I wrapped my headers and mounted my new Mistral Shorts. I used the GTM SAS removal kit, which was pretty straightforward, then removed the EVAP system (below) and finally flashed the ECU with the GTM Flash Tool.

Here is another way to skin a cat, if it serves useful to anyone looking to do this...

The EVAP removal was fairly simple. Did my homework on these forums - first. Then I completely removed the vacuum line to the manifold (since I already had the gas tank loosened having just finished the SAS delete) and plugged it with a rubber vacuum cap and a hose clamp.

For the breather line, I decided to leave the canister in place to catch any rogue drops of fuel and to prevent dust from entering (very unlikely, I know, but I ride often into Mexico where the dust flows like wine!). I snipped the breather line above and below the check valve and joined the two with a 5/16 (7.9mm) barbed fuel line coupler from O'Reilly's. It fit very snugly on the line. I hose clamped both of the snipped ends to ensure the coupler doesn't move and zip tied it all back into it's original stock position. See the attached pics for a visual.

Took the bike for a nice 150 mile ride east of San Diego yesterday. Can't say enough about how great it feels. Its been said before but I'll say it again: it is a whole new bike. With the new fuel map + deleted EVAP and SAS + exhaust, this bike is just so much smoother. Especially the first 3 gears. Before it would jerk and lurch forward like it had a mind of its own, and now it rolls off a stop like butter. Very pleased with it all.

 

[atul saini]

I just did the all of the above : deleted EVAP and SAS and installed the new GTM Map. The bike is clearly smoother (from a short ride) and seems to rev higher and develop a bit more power. I do have one fundamental question : if the SAS system serves no purpose at all, then why did Moto Guzzi put it on the bike at all? Is its just because of the popping sound that the bike makes when it's with the original map and no systems touched? If there's no value, why add SAS at all? Any ideas?

 

[GTM®]

If there's no value, why add SAS at all? Any ideas?

If you search just a little here, you’ll likely see that it is in place to reduce tailpipe emissions by (ridiculously) blowing atmospheric air into the exhaust port. Triumph blows it into the combustion chamber on the exhaust stroke which makes a touch more sense, but combusted fuel/air is just that no matter how much air you add.

 

[kiwi dave]

.... but combusted fuel/air is just that no matter how much air you add.

I like your way of thinking. The amount of fuel consumed does not change, but the air fuel ratio emitted appeases the environment devotees. Win, win for both sides!

 

[atul saini]

Yes, it looks like this is purely a Euro 4 desperation 'solution'. The bike with the new map and SAS/EVAP fixes is now excellent. Went for a 100 mile ride this morning and all of the original hesitation and hissing/popping is gone. With the DB-killers removed from the Agostini, the sound is now utterly amazing. Throttle response is a lot better across the board and the bike seems to have a little more power with a higher 'redline' than Stock. I would advise all V9 owners to get do this remap!

 

[scott_m]

I cannot take it anymore. I read topics like this and I just want to throw a brick through the screen of my iMac...

When I constantly read things like "For some strange reason, it works..." when referencing Todd's fueling solutions, ECU re-flashes, EVAP removal, and other solid and sound advice, I just want to slap the $#!^ out of some of these people.

Do you think Todd just sits at home after having spent $$$$$ thousands of serious dollars on the equipment necessary to actually modify and deliver modified ECU maps, the hundreds of hours of R&D development time and testing, and then all "willy-nilly", just sticks random values into the ECU map for our bikes, calls it done, and sells it to unsuspecting people on the internet? Are you kidding me?

Hell no!

I have had Todd's full fueling setup on my 2012 Stelvio NTX for many years now. My bike has been and continues to be the best running Stelvio I have ever encountered. Period. I have received excellent support and assistance from Todd on several occasions and he still to this day, cheerfully receives my downloaded data which I periodically forward to him, which he looks at, adjusts, and returns to me in a prompt manner.

For Pete's sake, show some class, a modicum of gratitude, and a healthy dose of respect for the man who has spent countless hours and $$$ developing these excellent products for our bikes to make them run the best that they can. I tell you honestly, nobody else out there is working so hard for this marque in the world, to provide these wonderful things to us. It is a labor of love and if you cannot see that well then you are just stupid and blind.

We ride a "boutique" brand motorcycle which means that aftermarket products and support are rare and limited because there isn't a giant market for the stuff, i.e. "no real profit - impossible to get rich selling it" compared to aftermarket stuff for Yamaha R1's for example...

Now, as to this "Euro 4 desperation 'solution' B.S....

For any of you who were riding motorcycles back in 1980, BMW designed this method that you are talking about now and installed it on all airheads coming to the USA. They called it "Pulse air injection". Looked like this.







This system, using differences in air pressure from moving hot gases, passively pulled clean, fresh air from the air box, and added it to the exhaust port, right before where the exhaust pipe comes off of the cylinder head.

I am totally confident that the BMW engineers at the Spandau factory in Berlin, had themselves a hellacious laugh over this trick of engineering bamboozlement because they realized that Air Quality Management idiots are bureaucrats and not engineers.

Did the system "reduce" measured pollutants in the exhaust? ABSOLUTELY YES! However, it was nothing but smoke and mirrors because if you add air to the exhaust gases, you effectively dilute the level of pollutants. Simple. Any of you ever heard the saying, "The solution to pollution is dilution...".

Many BMW riders, myself included, removed these pulse air injection systems as fast as possible because they were unnecessary in our minds, and aded another level of unpredictability in engine running. Just like the Moto Guzzi similar emissions solutions have in the past, and are doing now. Manufacturers are forced to play these stupid games to make a particular number appear at the new model homologation testing gas analyzer screen for some stupid government official who wouldn't know a piston if you shoved it up their...

I know, it sucks that they do this emissions BS to the motorcycles in the first place. The bikes don't run well with them onboard. Removing them works wonders and Todd knows what he is talking about. So do I.

Hell, I wrote the guide on this forum years ago, for removing the Charcoal canister from the Stelvio for exactly the same reason.

So, I apologize for ranting, but it was time again. Get some class gentlemen, and realize exactly all that has been involved in getting you these excellent solutions and wisdom and why Moto Guzzi has to play this stupid emissions game along with every other motorcycle manufacturer.

 

[atul saini]

Scott - you miss the point entirely. When I said "Yes, it looks like this is purely a Euro 4 desperation 'solution'", I meant that for Moto Guzzi its a help in getting past the Euro 4 emissions control rubbish. It looks like you misunderstood it to mean that I'm being critical of Todd's solutions, while the truth is entirely the opposite. The simple *fact* remains that European (and other) bike manufacturers are caught up in (IMHO utterly useless) regulations to control emissions they've got to lean out the fuel-mixtures in their bikes quite massively at low revs. This is the *primary* reason for Moto Guzzi (and SWM, and KTM, and Honda/Yamaha ad infinitum) having to put in very stupid workarounds, several of which are to hoodwink the regulators. The SAS/EVAP delete and the remap of the ECU are obvious fixes. They take time to get right and its fantastic that the GTM remap works so well. In fact, for some bikes there's no easily avaiable ECU remap so one has to resort to weird tricks via experimentation. For instance, earlier this year I got an SWM Superdual (ex Husky, its a rebadged 630) and the ECU maker is highly uncooperative, so ECU remaps are impossible. People then figured out a way to fool the ECU by rewiring the O2 sensor with a 2500 OHM resistor in the middle and VOILA : HP went from 56 to 68, massively better throttle response etc etc. etc. Blame the regulators who are forced to do this because of the climate-mafia, but that's a whole different can of worms. Hope this puts thins on track!!

 

[scott_m]

Scott - you miss the point entirely. When I said "Yes, it looks like this is purely a Euro 4 desperation 'solution'", I meant that for Moto Guzzi its a help in getting past the Euro 4 emissions control rubbish. It looks like you misunderstood it to mean that I'm being critical of Todd's solutions, while the truth is entirely the opposite. The simple *fact* remains that European (and other) bike manufacturers are caught up in (IMHO utterly useless) regulations to control emissions they've got to lean out the fuel-mixtures in their bikes quite massively at low revs. This is the *primary* reason for Moto Guzzi (and SWM, and KTM, and Honda/Yamaha ad infinitum) having to put in very stupid workarounds, several of which are to hoodwink the regulators. The SAS/EVAP delete and the remap of the ECU are obvious fixes. They take time to get right and its fantastic that the GTM remap works so well. In fact, for some bikes there's no easily avaiable ECU remap so one has to resort to weird tricks via experimentation. For instance, earlier this year I got an SWM Superdual (ex Husky, its a rebadged 630) and the ECU maker is highly uncooperative, so ECU remaps are impossible. People then figured out a way to fool the ECU by rewiring the O2 sensor with a 2500 OHM resistor in the middle and VOILA : HP went from 56 to 68, massively better throttle response etc etc. etc. Blame the regulators who are forced to do this because of the climate-mafia, but that's a whole different can of worms. Hope this puts thins on track!!

No Sir. I got the point entirely. You missed it. This is not something "new" because of Euro 4. It's been going on since BMW designed the solution it in 1980 because they saw it coming down the pike before anybody else. All the other manufacturers have simply stood on BMW's shoulders with their solutions of "dilution". That was the point. It's also why there is a SAS system in the first place.

 

[atul saini]

Yes I see that. Lets just blame the bloody climate-control freaks for needlessly screwing up the awesome fun of motorcycling .

 

[V7 Dreaming]

I am always thinking that SAS add air into exhaust port to make perfect a/f ratio at exhaust port and to re-ignite the unburnt fuel and this cause reducing of fuel fume to environment not just dilute it.

I am not a mechanic if anything wrong, I am sorry.

 

[JulienlV7]

Hi guys,

I flashed my V7II ECU with Todd's tool and I m very happy with, the engine is running amazingly now and it's like I have a new bike. I think I have an European V7 and I think there is no E-vap, can you confirm me that with this picture ?
Thanks
Also, since I uploaded the new map I have DTC code error (even if the bike drives well) 0130-P0136-P0336-P0611
Any ideas about it could be ?
Thanks again

 

[GTM®]

Hi guys, I flashed my V7II ECU with Todd's tool and I m very happy with, the engine is running amazingly now and it's like I have a new bike. I think I have an European V7 and I think there is no E-vap, can you confirm me that with this picture ? Thanks Also, since I uploaded the new map I have DTC code error (even if the bike drives well) 0130-P0136-P0336-P0611 Any ideas about it could be ? Thanks again

Excellent. If there was no tube connected to that intake manifold spigot from Guzzi (looks odd without it!), then you likely do not have the evap can.
You should not have any error codes, the list is here; https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/13-v7-v9-miu-ecu-error-codes.12522/
Reset the error codes. The lambda heater errors are normal and will not cause a a Check Engine Light (CEL).

 

[JulienlV7]

Excellent. If there was no tube connected to that intake manifold spigot from Guzzi (looks odd without it!), then you likely do not have the evap can.
You should not have any error codes, the list is here; https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/13-v7-v9-miu-ecu-error-codes.12522/
Reset the error codes. The lambda heater errors are normal and will not cause a a Check Engine Light (CEL).

Thanks for your answer but don't you think I need to replace the Cranckshaft and O2 sensors ?

 

[Roose]

Hi guys,

I flashed my V7II ECU with Todd's tool and I m very happy with, the engine is running amazingly now and it's like I have a new bike. I think I have an European V7 and I think there is no E-vap, can you confirm me that with this picture ?
Thanks
Also, since I uploaded the new map I have DTC code error (even if the bike drives well) 0130-P0136-P0336-P0611
Any ideas about it could be ?
Thanks again

View attachment 19021

The EVAP can sits between the frame rails, on my '17 V7III, behind the mount point of the side stand. Looks like skinny Red Bull can. I pulled mine over a year ago. No others mods were needed. And no error codes either.

 

[GTM®]

Thanks for your answer but don't you think I need to replace the Cranckshaft and O2 sensors ?

No. Clear the codes and ride.

 

[GTM®]

The EVAP can sits between the frame rails, on my '17 V7III, behind the mount point of the side stand. Looks like skinny Red Bull can. I pulled mine over a year ago. No others mods were needed. And no error codes either.

JulienIV7 is from S Korea. Global bikes occasionally have different emission items in place (or lack thereof).

 

[JulienlV7]

I don't see any Evap but tell me if I am wrong.
Thanks

 

[Scott H.]

I just did the EVAP bypass today. Cut and plugged the top half of the manifold line with a 1/4 x 2 clevis pin, plus clamped with size 4 clamp. The bottom half of that line I trimmed as close to the canister as possible, no plug down there. On the tank line I cut out the valve and placed a 3/4 barbed brass splicer where the valve used to be. My understanding is that rogue gas and vapors from the tank will go into the charcoal canister since I left it connected at the bottom. Two questions: does my description indicate I did this operation correctly? And should I notice any difference in how the bike runs/performs after this procedure?

 

[DeadEye]

Hey Julien,

I noticed you have metal starter and injectors covers ?
Older model stock parts vs. the new kids plastic bits ?

Don