Charcoal Canister Removal - Detailed with Pictures

[TurcoLoco]

Yes you can. Having the hose on the ports just makes it easier to sync the throttle bodies if needed in the future.

That is what I thought. Since my TBS Sync tool already has the hoses needed, I will just install the vacuum adapters with their caps and be done with it.
Thank you!

 

[TurcoLoco]

"get your self a GT Motorcycle Reflash Tool" from Guzzi Tech, and your Moto Guzzi will be born again!

Curious, what exactly is the reflash tool for?

Also, after removing the canister, is the TBS Sync really needed?

 

[Raven]

No a sync is not needed. The reflash tool is used to load a new custom fuel map to the ECU of your bike.

 

[TurcoLoco]

No a sync is not needed. The reflash tool is used to load a new custom fuel map to the ECU of your bike.

Thank you. So, it is like PowerCommander? Does the tool come with a software to create the maps? If not, where do you get them from?

I am relatively new to MG and to this forum so please excuse me if my questions seem silly or redundant.

 

[GTM®]

Thank you. So, it is like PowerCommander? Does the tool come with a software to create the maps? If not, where do you get them from? I am relatively new to MG and to this forum so please excuse me if my questions seem silly or redundant.

Hi TurcoLoco, welcome to the Forum. Being new, you'll have to read a bit as we have an immense amount on info that has been covered over and over and over. Depending on where you're at in CA, you might be able to have me do it for you in person for less, without the flash tool. You'll also need to peruse the STORE link above. I'll help you out a little, ECU FT; https://gtmotocycles.com/collections/fueling/products/gt-motocycles-5am-7sm-reflash-tool -- more in depth info here; https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/guzzitech-power-commander-v-information.2686/

 

[scott_m]

You don’t have to connect the two throttle bodies together. You can if you like, however I don’t and I do indeed just put vacuum caps over each 6mm vacuum port I installed.

 

[TurcoLoco]

You don’t have to connect the two throttle bodies together. You can if you like, however I don’t and I do indeed just put vacuum caps over each 6mm vacuum port I installed.

Thank you, Scott. That is what I indeed ended up doing! =)

I removed the plumbing for the canister and instead of reusing the existing hoses, I cut about 6' fresh fuel line with 1/4" ID and it seemed to be same to the stock hose and it did fit the nipple on the fuel tank snug enough but I will still use a clamp as well.
After routing the hose from the skid plate all the way back to the fuel tank, it seems it was approximately a foot too long but I still have the tank off so I will re-evaluate once the tank is placed.
While peeking around the engine compartment, I noticed a hose coming from the top of the transmission that didn't seem to be connecting to anything. I looked around but there was no suitable connections or ports for it within its range. Does the hose in the attachments (red arrow) connect to anything that I somehow missed?


Side note: I was initially working on installing a new camera system to the bike. As I was assessing where to tap in for power, I realized the 12V cigarette lighter outlet which I never use, offered the connection I needed! It is also on and off with the ignition as well which is great.
So, unless anyone has any objections, I am thinking I will solder correct size male spade connectors to the camera hardness and that is be that. I can feed the wires coming to the screen thru the same plug as well.

 

[GTM®]

While peeking around the engine compartment, I noticed a hose coming from the top of the transmission that didn't seem to be connecting to anything. I looked around but there was no suitable connections or ports for it within its range. Does the hose in the attachments (red arrow) connect to anything that I somehow missed?

Nope. Usually looped up as high as possible and tucked under something that will hold it in place. That is the way Guzzi "vents" the trans.

 

[TurcoLoco]

Nope. Usually looped up as high as possible and tucked under something that will hold it in place. That is the way Guzzi "vents" the trans.

As weird as it seemed, I had a feeling that might have been the case.
Thank you.

 

[TurcoLoco]

This is a shot of my '17 Stelvio gas tank connections. I believe I ended up holding and slightly twisting the gray-ish circular retainer thing as i push down the line connector then pulling gently to pop it off.

Barely a drop or two of fuel came out! No burping or farting, at least not from the bike. =)

 

[Thomas D Dirks]

I'm hoping someone has done this with a 2009 Stelvio. I just have a simple question. The 2009 has the fuel line connected to the tank underneath rather than as shown on the 2012 model. It also does not have the same type of connector. I'm trying to figure out how to disconnect the line with this connector. Does anyone know. I don't want to break it,

 

[scott_m]

Got Google?

 

[Thomas D Dirks]

Got Google?

Thanks. I did try Google. I tried the technique in this video and it didn't work for me. Mine will not separate and I don't want to break it by using any more force than I already have.

 

[scott_m]

Thanks. I did try Google. I tried the technique in this video and it didn't work for me. Mine will not separate and I don't want to break it by using any more force than I already have.

You’re welcome.

We’ll try again...

RULE #1: The red elbow is EASILY BROKEN because it was never designed to have any external force put upon it! At no time during any of this, do you exert any lateral or vertical forces on the elbow itself. IT WILL BREAK EASIER THAN YOU REALIZE. IGNORE THIS RULE AT YOUR OWN PERIL.

MOST IMPORTANT CRITICAL CONCEPT: All of your GENTLE movements ARE ON THE fuel injection line side and involve movement only along the centerline axis of the red elbow connector which actually relieves tension on the elbow.

Procedure and Reasoning

1. Pull the fuse for the fuel pump.

2. Crank engine for a few seconds, it will start and then die, and the pressure will lower in the fuel injection line. Crank it one more time for a few seconds and the pressure within the injector itself will equalize with the fuel line pressure to the lowest pressure possible all the way back to the red elbow.

3. With one hand, from the fuel line side, grip the fuel line and GENTLY PRESS the whole assembly towards the elbow connector until it no longer moves. This moves you off of the locking rim on the elbow connector.

4. With your other hand, GENTLY PRESS the white collar back towards the fuel line, squeezing the entire fuel line connector assembly together. This releases the locking rim pawls on the collar which grab the locking rim, i.e. the latching mechanism.

5. While keeping these two components pressed together, GENTLY WIGGLE the whole fuel line connector assembly (BUT DO NOT EXTERT LATERAL OR VERTICAL PRESSURE ON THE RED ELBOW ITSELF) as you back it away and off of the elbow.

(The video doesn't do #3 the easiest way, because you don't have to push that hard, and it will only move a very small amount, but the outcome he got in the video was the same.​

The important part of the video as far as you are concerned is the elbow connector and what it looks like at the moment the connector is removed {0:59}. You can clearly see the locking rim on the red elbow.​

​

When he shows you the end of the fuel injection hose and white connector {1:01}, you can see the white pawls inside of it that grab the locking ring. I believe that having you actually see what these parts really look like, you will be able to visualize it in your mind as you disconnect it. It will be much easier as you will understand what is happening)​

The trick is to relieve the pressure to the lowest point possible from injector to fuel pump, push the whole fuel line connector towards the elbow, then press the locking collar back towards the fuel line to release the locking pawls, then GENTLY WIGGLE it off the locking ring on the elbow and off of the elbow completely.

The reason you both press the fuel injection hose towards the elbow and then press the collar towards the fuel injection hose, is exactly the same for both - movement of the locking pawls. First you are relieving all pressure being exerted on the pawls. They will no longer be touching the locking rim. Then when you press the collar back towards the fuel injection line, the collar controls the mechanism that pushes the pawls out of the way so you can pass over the locking rim. The gentle wiggle is because the assembly is plastic, and sometimes, the pawls don't retract quite as far as they need to in order to clear the locking rim. By GENTLY wiggling the compressed assembly, you will aid in fully retracting the pawls to their maximum distance away from the center, thereby making it easy for the fuel line connector to clear the locking ring and then be slid off the elbow.

When you replace the line, you press the whole assembly gently onto the elbow and all the way past the locking ring until it stops and will go no further. {This is only possible if you have bleed out the fuel line like we did in Step 1} You want no pressure in the line so the you can press the connector PAST the locking ring so that the pawls fully extend to their maximum seating positions. You then GENTLY PULL back on the fuel line which fully seats the pawls on the locking rim. When the fuel pump is again engaged, the pressure within the line, will add pressure on the pawls against the locking ring, causing the hose to be locked in place with the pawls, via fuel line pressure, and as a result, the red elbow and the fuel injection line become a rigid assembly, unable to wiggle loose.

Good Luck ! You'll get it. Just be GENTLE. It doesn't require any force, only finesse and technique.

 

[Raven]

Having broken one of these last spring, I appreciate the detailed instruction for next time. I'll be printing these instructions.

P.S. Printed and added to the Moto Guzzi folder.

 

[scott_m]

Hey! Thanks Raven.

I'm glad somebody could use it.

I had hoped that somebody who read through the posts, would have noticed this little detail though.

This photo:



But more specifically this part of the photo:



Is is EXACTLY like the red elbow fuel line connector EXCEPT the roles are reversed.

The fuel tank here (from a Stelvio) has the CONNECTOR end attached to it, (with the locking collar and pawls both clearly visible) while the fuel injection line just has the ELBOW (black, not red) with the black LOCKING RIM (visible in the space between and behind the 12 o'clock and 3 o'clock pawls)



Seen up close like this, hopefully you can appreciate from an engineering standpoint, how elegant of a retaining system it truly is. When disconnecting either setup using the same proper technique, it's actually very easy and requires no force and more importantly, NO TOOLS whatsoever. It's BRILLIANT ENGINEERING.


So it turns out that if you can operate one, you can operate the other. They are just reversed as to which component they are attached to.

Enjoy.

 

[Chris J. Haasbroek]

I recently purchased a 2nd hand 2013 Stelvio NTX and noticed a strong fuel smell when starting. The entire fuel line latching mechanism (locking collar's pawls and the black locking rim) appears to be broken as it does not "grab" the elbow. The elbow and fuel line still 100%. I need advice to fix this - what replacement parts and where to buy it.

 

[scott_m]

I recently purchased a 2nd hand 2013 Stelvio NTX and noticed a strong fuel smell when starting. The entire fuel line latching mechanism (locking collar's pawls and the black locking rim) appears to be broken as it does not "grab" the elbow. The elbow and fuel line still 100%. I need advice to fix this - what replacement parts and where to buy it.

You are not going to be happy.

If some idiot went to work on it with a pry bar or screwdriver, and broke the fuel line connector pawls integrated into the fuel pump, you are looking at a whole new fuel pump (part # 897636) available only from Moto Guzzi and about €750.

You can see the assembly in the parts catalog which is available to site donors in the DOWNLOADS section.

I know of no source for just the locking pawl connectors plate portion of the fuel pump.

Additionally, if the retaining ring molded into the fuel elbow (the part the pawls push against, thereby holding it in place) has been broken off, the whole fuel line (petrol tube assembly) also will need replacing at about another €50.

In any event, it’s a fuel injection line under high-pressure, and it will not stay in place without the locking mechanism functioning.

CAUTION: Do not ride the bike like you describe. Spontaneous and sudden fire is highly likely from the spewing fuel and you are sitting right on top of it!

 

[Chris J. Haasbroek]

Thank you for your prompt response. You confirmed my fear with having to buy a new fuel pump.

It is said that the difference between a landmine and an idiot is that the landmine only destroys your vehicle once.

AF1 Racing sells these: af1racing.com/Zip-Ty-Racing-Male-Aluminum-Fuel-Tank-Fitting

Is there perhaps a very slight chance of this working properly and safely?

 

[scott_m]

Thank you for your prompt response. You confirmed my fear with having to buy a new fuel pump.

It is said that the difference between a landmine and an idiot is that the landmine only destroys your vehicle once.

AF1 Racing sells these: af1racing.com/Zip-Ty-Racing-Male-Aluminum-Fuel-Tank-Fitting

Is there perhaps a very slight chance of this working properly and safely?

You are welcome!

Unfortunately, I don’t think this is going to help you.

You need to ascertain why the fuel elbow is not engaging in the lock.

With the fuel elbow removed from the fuel pump connector, can you see the pawls? There should be 4 there I believe. 12 o’clock, 3 o’clock, 6 o’clock and 9 o’clock positions. You can see them in the above photos.

You should also see the locking ring (ridge) which goes all the way around the fuel elbow. This is what the pawls engage onto. You can clearly see it in the AF1 photo of the aluminum fitting.

If both of these components are intact, then…

If they are there, then try pressing the locking collar back towards the fuel tank while then inserting the elbow gently but firmly, all the way into the fuel pump receptacle. Then while holding the elbow in place, gently pull the locking collar back towards you, and try and engage the pawls onto the retaining ring.

You can see the design in the photo below in that the locking ring presses the pawls from the back, on their shoulder, and causes it to close down and grip the locking ring like a clamp hanging onto the ridge. The pressure in the fuel line keeps the elbow pressing back against the pawls, further tightening their grip on the locking ring.

So to summarize, there are 3 pieces to the system. If all 3 are there and working, it’s just not put together correctly.

1. The locking ring on the fuel elbow.

2. The locking collar on the fuel elbow receptacle itself on the fuel pump. This slides the pawls away from (press towards the fuel tank) and then towards the locking ring (slide the locking collar away from the fuel tank).

3. The locking pawls which engage the locking ring, thereby keeping the fuel elbow held in place.

Also, some detailed photos of what you have is always much more helpful.