UpMap Q&A

[GTM®]

Thanks Todd, will do. I'm going to try again shortly because so far, I've been trying with the tank removed from the bike, and I'm thinking there is a _possibility_ that having those electrics unhooked may be enough to cause unexpected results with the new map. I'll let you know how it goes.

__Jason

Thanks Jason, that is most likely they case. I think if the ECU sees any errors, it stops the process.

 

[jwtucker]

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa!

It turns out that it was user error (as we like to say, an ID:10T error) combined perhaps with wonky UI design on the UpMap side

When selecting a map (I went with the "Zard FD" for headers, de-cat and dB-killer) I _thought_ was looking at a list of US maps, but they jumble together US and EU maps with no apparent rhyme or reason to the sort order, and of course... I inadvertently grabbed the EU version of the map. Realized my problem, got the correct map ($$$ LOL @ expensive mistake) and that one flashed up A-OK.

Hoping this map works well enough for the exhaust setup I have now. It certainly can't be worse than the OEM map, I'm thinking. Now... to go see how it goes...

Hopefully others can learn from my silly mistake.

__Jason

 

[scott_m]

A wise cabinet maker once told me, “Measure 3 times, then cut once”.

 

[jwtucker]

A wise cabinet maker once told me, “Measure 3 times, then cut once”.

Haha! Yeah, I actually checked out the various files numerous times before I "purchased" one because I wanted to make sure I got the right one. But... notice how they present the list to the app:

V85 21 US OEM
V85 21 US ZARD SO
V85 21 EU OEM N ZARD
V85 21 EU ZARD FD
V85 21 EU ZARD FR
V85 21 US OEM N ZARD
V85 21 US ZARD FD
V85 21 US ZARD VR

They sneak those EU versions right in the middle of the US list. Nice sort! It was a trap! LOL

 

[scott_m]

Hey! Super Kudos for being lighthearted about your mistake! That’s classy.

I make mistakes too and I respect people who acknowledge that they don’t walk on water.

Glad you got it sorted. How does it work?

 

[jwtucker]

So far, I like it. Despite the map not being specifically for my choice of exhaust, it seems to work just fine. As another mentioned upthread when they did theirs, I get a small amount of occasional decel popping (SAS deleted), but not excessive at all. The only issue is that for a brief few seconds when I was out last night, I had the CEL blink at me, and then shortly after that, the "brakes are stuck" warning came on then went away. Hoping just a transient glitch, but will keep an eye on it. Was able to pull the CEL codes with the UpMap - 2 errors: 1 for random misfire detected and 1 for a misfire detected on a specific cylinder (don't recall which offhand). Again, those came and went early on in the ride, and that was it.

__Jason

 

[scott_m]

So far, I like it. Despite the map not being specifically for my choice of exhaust, it seems to work just fine. As another mentioned upthread when they did theirs, I get a small amount of occasional decel popping (SAS deleted), but not excessive at all. The only issue is that for a brief few seconds when I was out last night, I had the CEL blink at me, and then shortly after that, the "brakes are stuck" warning came on then went away. Hoping just a transient glitch, but will keep an eye on it. Was able to pull the CEL codes with the UpMap - 2 errors: 1 for random misfire detected and 1 for a misfire detected on a specific cylinder (don't recall which offhand). Again, those came and went early on in the ride, and that was it.

__Jason

The popping can be minimized by rolling off the throttle smoothly which allows the ECU time to work down the map uniformly. When you let the throttle snap closed, you go form a dynamic condition to a static idle condition, and the popping is actually amplified significantly by this condition. Try it. You will see what I am talking about.

As to your CEL codes about misfires. It has been my experience, that misfire errors are usually the telltale sign of a poor battery condition. I would check you battery by LOAD TESTING it. IF it passes, you probably just have lower than expected voltage in the battery and I highly recommend the use of a battery maintenance charger of 4 amps. I have this in my workshop and also on my 8 motorcycles. I wrote about this here... Enjoy! Thanks for the update and information.

Battery Tenders - Yes/No and What size to get?

This issue rears its ugly head every so often so I thought I'd write about it.When you decide to utilize a Battery Tender (or other manufacturer) type charger to maintain your battery, (and I strongly recommend it), please do not waste your time and money on the 750mAmp wall plug in model. It...

www.guzzitech.com

 

[jwtucker]

The popping can be minimized by rolling off the throttle smoothly which allows the ECU time to work down the map uniformly. When you let the throttle snap closed, you go form a dynamic condition to a static idle condition, and the popping is actually camplified significantly by this condition. Try it. You will see what I am talking about.

As to your CEL codes about misfires. It has been my experience, that misfire errors are usually the telltale sign of a poor battery condition. I would check you battery by LOAD TESTING it. IF it passes, you probably just have lower than expected voltage in the battery and I highly recommend the use of a battery maintenance charger of 4 amps. I have this in my workshop and also on my 8 motorcycles. I wrote about this here... Enjoy! Thanks for the update and information.

Yeah, the popping is fairly trivial - really only happens on aggressive downshifting, as you suggest.

As for the misfire info, I'll keep an eye on that. Note that while connected, the UpMap displays a voltage read-out in the app, which is handy. I'm looking to take off on a Blue Ridge trip next week, so I'm going to put as many miles on between now and then as I can to see if there are any gremlins lurking.

I somewhat have the opinion that part of the problems with modern bikes is too many damn sensors! I'm not logging analytics to win races, nor am I trying to land on the moon. I just want to ride my bike, and I feel like many of the new sensors are just one more thing to fret over. At any rate, will monitor. Thanks for the info, Scott.

__Jason

 

[scott_m]

You are most welcome. Good Luck and have a safe and wonderful trip!

 

[GerryAZ]

Jason,

I am glad to know that the system lets you read error codes. I have no plans to modify the exhaust or evaporative emission systems so I will likely want the 21 US OEM map (or, hopefully a GTM map in the future), but I am now planning to purchase the UpMap so that I have a way to read/clear DTC's when I am not near a dealer. I am following this thread and hope to see some confirmation that the device and application can both read and clear DTC's. I will also be looking for a map that is suitable for stock 2021 with K&N air filter (maybe even with air box cover modifications for more air flow).

 

[jwtucker]

Gerry - I believe that some errors may be erasable. In the case of the errors I saw, they were explicitly NOT erasable (the app displays "Erasable: no" on the error details, so presumably there are cases where the it IS erasable, othwise why even mention it). The errors I saw were transient, though... the CEL only flashed briefly and then went away, so not something that really needed to be erased anyhow. The app interface does have a "trash" icon in the CEL error section, but I've not had an opportunity to see how that works. My assumption is that its the ECU that dictates whether or not a particular error is erasable or not, but I'm not certain. And hopefully, I won't have any more errors so I won't be able to find out LOL

__Jason

 

[GerryAZ]

Gerry - I believe that some errors may be erasable. In the case of the errors I saw, they were explicitly NOT erasable (the app displays "Erasable: no" on the error details, so presumably there are cases where the it IS erasable, othwise why even mention it). The errors I saw were transient, though... the CEL only flashed briefly and then went away, so not something that really needed to be erased anyhow. The app interface does have a "trash" icon in the CEL error section, but I've not had an opportunity to see how that works. My assumption is that its the ECU that dictates whether or not a particular error is erasable or not, but I'm not certain. And hopefully, I won't have any more errors so I won't be able to find out LOL

__Jason

Thanks for the feedback. I will watch this thread and look for information updates on their web site for a while before ordering (from GTM if I decide to go forward). So far, it is the best option I have found for at least being able to read DTC's.

 

[Zap59]

I gave my bike a good run yesterday a couple hundred miles and I don't have pure high test gas in it yet, but I was getting a little ping/knock under hard acceleration. The engine light would flash for a couple seconds then it would go out. I think it's fuel related so once I get a good full tank of high test l will report back.

 

[jwtucker]

Interesting... I wonder if those are the same "misfire detected" errors that I saw on mine the other day.

__Jason

 

[Zap59]

Your YouTube video was the reason I ordered an upmap, Stupid question but are rider modes disabled once you flash the ecu and download your preferred map?

I don't think so. I toggled through them the other day.

 

[scott_m]

Note that while connected, the UpMap displays a voltage read-out in the app, which is handy.

I keep writing about this but it doesn’t seem to sink in.

Batteries have voltage, but more importantly, they have amperage and their behavior when subjected to load.

Your UpMap is a “dumb” device in that it just reads the surface voltage across the terminals. You can have a battery read 12V that way, but when you begin to place demand on that battery to supply power to crank over the engine, or drive the multitude of electronic stuff hanging off many bikes these days, they battery will fail badly and cause these weird electrical “gremlins”.

A “Load Test” is a performance test of the battery to check behavior during this load draw phase, which gives you the true actual condition of the battery.

In your case, with unusual CEL errors like misfires, which are rare for a newer motorcycle, then this can be a telltale sign of looming battery failure.

It’s a simple check with the right equipment at an auto parts store, for example, which often times, will load test your battery for free for you.

Good luck and have a great and safe trip!

 

[scott_m]

Your YouTube video was the reason I ordered an upmap, Stupid question but are rider modes disabled once you flash the ecu and download your preferred map?

Although this was well covered and all you had to do was SEARCH and read as Todd has told you, I like to teach people to THINK about what is actually happening underneath their balls, while riding on a motorcycle.

Understanding what is happening, is the key.

Fuel injection”maps” alter one thing, the DURATION the fuel injector is OPEN. This changes the amount of fuel being squirted into the intake. Maps seek to optimize air:fuel ratios.

Ride modes, alter the RATE the throttle inputs are PROCESSED and ACTED UPON by the ECU. Instead of providing instant translation, the software “dampens” the response rate, and slows down the transition to a more gradual application of the throttle.

So in RAIN mode for example; a rapid whacking open of the throttle would normally put power to the wheels instantly, and there would be a loss of traction at the rear wheel, potentially causing fishtailing or other chassis instability. The RIDE MODE PROGRAM, intercepts this throttle signal and smooths it out to a more gradual application of the throttle.

Think “gentle roll on” vs. “whacked open instantly” and how the motorcycle would behave in these two very different situations.

The analogy I use is the throttle without riding modes, responds like a regular light switch; off/on, while the RIDE MODE software behaves like a dimmer switch that you turn uniformly and gradually. Both take you to the same place, one instantly and the other gradually!

So, you can mentally see, that these 2 very different components in your motorcycle design, affect two very different things entirely, and are not affected one by the other.

One other complication in the mix.

On very sophisticated systems like the modern BMW motorcycle with active suspensions, in the RIDE MODE, not only is the throttle signal dampened, the actual electronic suspension is also modified as well.

 

[Sam V Napoleon]

Did my map tonight on a 2021 v85. A couple of points. So I wasted my free map on the EU version of what I needed. Surprise surprise, that won’t install on the bike and it will throw an error code. Lesson learned, don’t be that guy. After buying the correct US map, my iPhone wouldn’t stay paired with the device. That forced me to restart the app a few times. Finally, with my iPad, everything worked perfect. I haven’t started the bike yet as I am waiting for one more part of my exhaust to arrive from GTM, so let’s hope everything is well and my ECU is not poopy.

 

[jwtucker]

Hahaha! Oh man... if you read up-thread, I warn against that EXACT mistake, which I made myself. Glad it's not just me... it really is an easy mistake to make given the way they designed their store interface.

__Jason

 

[scott_m]

…if you read…

The bane of this place all the time….

So many people absolutely refuse to SEARCH and READ here. What they are looking for is almost always already covered in detail.

Most want to be spoon fed.