UpMap Q&A

[jwtucker]

And you guys actually spend money with and trust these people? Amazing.

Such is life on the bleeding edge of technology

Its hard to type that with a straight face on a forum about Italian motorcycles...

__Jason

 

[scottmastrocinque]

I have 7 Italian motorcycles currently. They are all drop dead reliable without any issues of note.

 

[GTM®]

A question for @GTM perhaps: Todd, do you know of any pros/cons to simply leaving the device connected to the bike 100% of the time? It does seem to draw some current (LED is on when connected, regardless of bike being on or off), so there is that.

It is designed to run in place to use the telemetry and related if you so choose… so no downsides outside of parasitic draw.
My DTC post is here;
https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/upmap-q-a.22298/post-182407 - until I have one in the shop with a major error, I can’t say what it does yet. They say yes it can outside of the stored memory. I can inquire, but I’ve exerted my frustration threshold already this month.

 

[GerryAZ]

I have no doubt the basic motor, gearbox, and final drive are reliable. Unfortunately, an electronic problem or glitch can prevent those reliable mechanical components from doing their work so I need a way to access the ECU. If Piaggio would sell a scan tool to me as an individual for a reasonable price, I would have already purchased one.

I have an OBDII scan tool for modern gas engine vehicles and a Bluetooth OBDII interface with aftermarket Android application for my electric car. Since there is no internal combustion engine, electric cars are not required to follow the OBDII standard so the only option was to take a chance on the Android app which I first purchased in 2013. I have used those devices to read and clear DTC’s in order to restore normal vehicle operation.

I have a GS-911 for the BMW’s and wish there was a similar scanner available for my V85. I am hoping the UpMap device will serve that function. I know from Jason’s experience that it can at least read DTC’s so I am purchasing it. I have had good experiences with the GS-911 and the Android app for vehicles that I could not buy “manufacturer-approved” scanners for so I am willing to gamble on the UpMap (especially since Todd has chosen it for his fueling system).

As noted previously, I will wait until I get to try the UpMap unit before taking my bike to the dealer. Therefore, we will soon know if it can read/clear major faults (assuming it will pair and communicate with an ECU that has active major errors). Any idea what the delivery time is after order?

 

[scottmastrocinque]

I guess the truly staggering problem I have with all of this is that there was a US distributor of systems that would do this perfectly. TechnoResearch in Michigan.

They sold the Centurion and the Alaris units which were less than $125 I think it was at the time.

I bought them for all my Moto Guzzi motorcycles and both my Piaggio scooters.

They offered human telephone technical support and even remote diagnostic and technical assistance.

What happened? People wouldn’t support them! Plain and simple.

They would rather go get that POS GuzziDiag program on the internet for free, and most ended up bricking their ECU’s or making their bikes completely unrideable.

So, Sandro from TechnoResearch, pulled out of the Moto Guzzi arena for good and focused on Harley-Davidson, Indian and Victory. This is all they do now They are my vendor for my commercial HD system and software.

Regrettably, it was a terrible loss to Guzzisti everywhere.

Now, it seems, just about everyone is hot to plunk down $500 or more for a T800 from a company that cannot even get their website straight with valid links, clear notification that EU maps will not load into non-EU motorcycles, or the simple answer if their product will or will not allow the complete reading AND clearing of all DTC codes.

Wow.

It just blows my mind.

I’m sure it chaps Todd’s hide, that he is forced to work with schlock people like this but unfortunately, the Moto Guzzi community shot themselves in the foot with that crap freeware.

I hope this gets better all the way around for all of you. I truly do.

 

[GerryAZ]

As a new Moto Guzzi owner, I would have gladly purchased from TechnoResearch. If the UpMap system does not work to read and clear DTC’s, then I will keep searching for something else, but at least UpMap makes the hardware interface for several different brands so they look legitimate.

I was planning to wait to purchase until there was more user experience and favorable reviews, but I now have an opportunity to verify its functionality. If it works to read the error code(s) and clear them, then I will know I have something that works. If not, then I take the bike to the dealer and hope some reputable company decides it is worthwhile to market a suitable device. This experience makes it clear that I need something since there are places I travel to that are a long way from any dealer.

 

[jwtucker]

If Moto Guzzi owners are famous for anything, it’s cheapness. Personally, I’m in the “you get what you pay for” camp, and don’t mind spending the money for things that I like. But anyway…

More data points: I got the misfire errors again - it seems to happen under heavy throttle, high revs, but not predictable. I mean, I can’t deliberately replicate the problem… it just sort of happens when it feels like it. No perceptible running problems that I can hear/feel at the time… seems perfectly fine except for a few blinks of the CEL.

ALSO, this time I tried hitting the trash icon when the list of errors was up. It did, in fact, clear the list. So maybe un-erasable errors are actually erasable?

__Jason

 

[GerryAZ]

Jason,

Thanks for the feedback. I am also in the “you get what you pay for” camp and don’t mind spending for things I like.

I think the algorithms that detect misfire are more likely to detect something under heavy throttle and high RPM. One detection method under the OBDII standard is observing the rate of change of crankshaft speed (which would be more noticeable at high RPM under heavy load).

 

[jwtucker]

My hunch (or hope) is that it’s a non-issue, although I am keeping Scott’s battery load testing suggestion in mind. Once we have more UpMap users reporting in, maybe we can determine if it’s a trend related to that, or rule it out.

__Jason

 

[Zap59]

Power command sells a pigtail for your V85TT so a standard OBD2 reader can look around.....

 

[GerryAZ]

I did not realize the Moto Guzzi is OBDII compatible, but noticed that Jason’s misfire codes match OBDII naming convention (P for powertrain, 0300 for random/multi cylinder misfire, and 0302 for cylinder number 2 misfire). I guess I will order an adapter cable and see if I can access it with my generic scan tool.

 

[GTM®]

Power command sells a pigtail for your V85TT so a standard OBD2 reader can look around.....

Have you done this, or is it something your read online? Power Command shows no results using Google.
We do not accept random postings on things like this, unless proven to work by a commercially supported company.

I did not realize the Moto Guzzi is OBDII compatible, but noticed that Jason’s misfire codes match OBDII naming convention (P for powertrain, 0300 for random/multi cylinder misfire, and 0302 for cylinder number 2 misfire). I guess I will order an adapter cable and see if I can access it with my generic scan tool.

I strongly do not believe that Guzzi is using ANY type of standard OBD connection to the ECU. The code #'s and names do seem to be following the standards though. I would STRONGLY caution the words above until proven.

 

[scottmastrocinque]

FWIW:

Part of the requirement of the Euro 4 standard was the change to J1962 (OBD-II) type of diagnostic connector.

The new Euro 5 regulations include requirements for motorcycle OBD-II systems.

ABS is also required for any motorcycle or scooter 125cc and above wishing E5 compliance certification.

 

[GerryAZ]

I found an adapter cable on Amazon that connects the Moto Guzzi 6-pin to the standard OBDII (16-pin, I think) connector so I ordered one. The descriptive literature says regular OBDII scan tools work with it. I will be careful.

Do you know how long delivery typically takes for the UpMap unit?

Scott’s note about the E4 and E5 standard requirements explains the correspondence I received from the manufacturer regarding the GS-911 unit I have for my BMW (that a different unit is needed for the newer bikes).

 

[GTM®]

found an adapter cable on Amazon that connects the Moto Guzzi 6-pin to the standard OBDII (16-pin, I think) connector so I ordered one. The descriptive literature says regular OBDII scan tools work with it. I will be careful.

Do you know how long delivery typically takes for the UpMap unit?

The connector is used on the forbidden (to talk about here) Diag software. Do let me know if a generic scan tool will communicate with it.

 

[NuckaMan]

I am one of the early adopters of the RB Evo setup for my Euro4 V85TT. With over 8K miles ridden with the RB Evo system, I can say I am still quite satisfied with the performance.

I am a bit curious with this one as it seems to reflash my ECU, which I prefer over using a piggy-back system like the RB Evo (or Power Commander types). How much benefit would you say the T800 offers of the RB Evo?

Also regarding the OBD2 adapter. I bought one off of Amazon (I forget the brand) and it works quite well. I used it recently to see why the check engine light was on. I have a mid-range ODB2 scanner and was able to pull the code from the bike.

 

[GTM®]

I am a bit curious with this one as it seems to reflash my ECU, which I prefer over using a piggy-back system like the RB Evo (or Power Commander types). How much benefit would you say the T800 offers of the RB Evo?

Also regarding the OBD2 adapter. I bought one off of Amazon (I forget the brand) and it works quite well. I used it recently to see why the check engine light was on. I have a mid-range ODB2 scanner and was able to pull the code from the bike.

There's little to no benefit of one over the other outside of installation simplicity, and the T800 offers diagnostic function.

Great and interesting news on the OBD2 scanner. Can you state which model you used/purchased?

 

[NuckaMan]

Adapter: amazon.com/SuperOBD-Motorrad-Diagnose-Motorcycle-CAN-BusKTM/dp/B09GX4PVQ1

ODB2 Scanner: harborfreight.com/automotive/diagnostic-testing-scanning/zr13s-obd2-code-reader-with-abssrsfixassist-57666.html

Regarding the scanner, only feature that is useful is code reading (and erasing). Most all other scanner features (like real time diagnostics) is not functional like when connected to a car. It's a pretty good scanner to have at home for hobby mechanics like myself.

 

[GTM®]

Regarding the scanner, only feature that is useful is code reading (and erasing). Most all other scanner features (like real time diagnostics) is not functional like when connected to a car. It's a pretty good scanner to have at home for hobby mechanics like myself.

Thanks for the info. I'm going to buy a cheapie from Amazon for testing.

 

[Zap59]

Oh I'm bad I said I bought my pigtail from power Commander but I guess I might have got it off of Amazon too at least I opened up some eyes.